This book is actually seeded, probably 10 years ago, when i realized. Oh, no. A lot of these kids think it's cool to be mean because steve jobs was considered mean - and i remember thinking man if i ever get to as big as i think, i'm gon na get and not that i'm steve jobs now but, like i have enough attention, I really want this book to go viral because i wanted to change the temperament of leaders. You got your perspective.

I just want to be happy. Don't you want to be happy gary vaynerchuk, welcome to the show bud. Thank you for having me my old friend. Oh, they call me old.

I am, but you look great gorgeous nice to see your face again. Uh on on the screen here, it's been a little bit. Uh you've been you've had a lot crack on lately. First, congratulations on christy's, that's a huge deal dude! Thank you gary v and christie's.

Like man, i thought i had you on phillips depuy. I did an auction a long time ago and now you're just rolling in off the top turnbuckle at christie's uh. Congratulations! That's in the nft world um, but before we go to nfts, you got a new book, that's coming out man and i don't want to beat around the bush because i'm. I think this is your best work yet and i'm curious uh.

If you could tell us a little bit about it and why you wrote it first of all, that's like so huge to hear from you, because i know you well enough to know what that statement means and it's funny. I've been quietly, and i haven't been publicly so talk about. You know why i admire you. I think you have a really good read on this.

I do think that the only book that was like this was crush it yeah, i felt crush it. You know much like many people's first album right yeah. You have your whole life to write it. So i had quote unquote a lot of things to say and new things to say, and during a time of transition in the world, you know the economic crisis, social media.

So this i really got into my feelings in a different way and really asked myself like what is it that allows the insanity of like the christie stuff, the uh. You know um when you're 45 and now you can say: okay, i've put more than half my life down in my professional years and boy. This is really going well and i'm happy right. It's not just like friends that we have that have done well financially, but are not happy right.

We know that there's a lot of them, yeah, there's a lot more of them in the world, believes or knows, and so you know i have for over a decade now been passionate to share and talk, and i feel, like you know, covid right, you get to Get you know, you have time to think and i'm at a different pace, and i think i finally kind of put down in a really fun format, which was really the thing. I was most scared about, like how would i structure these feelings and um? I really talk about what i believe, which is emotional intelligence in business, is the advantage that being kind doesn't mean you get walked all over and you're bad at negotiations. You know that that optimism matters that accountability, pointing a thumb at yourself versus a finger, especially if you're an owner where you hired that person. So what are we doing here? You know and so yeah.

Really i i'm actually do you know sorry to like throw this in a different direction, but, like would love to understand why you think that's the case. Well, i long have believed much like, for example, creativity. The things that are soft and very difficult to explain often get written off, but i'll give you what i think is a good analog, which is social media 15 years ago. Naysayers were saying that social media did mean and what and it was something to write off, but what we know now is that it was this virtually the same, then as it is now, and yet the thing that was missing was our business, culture's ability to measure It correct as soon as soon as the technology allowed people to measure it all the ad dollars came flying out of television into social media because it was the fast, the most personal, the smartest, and everyone knew everything about it.

And so it was all of a sudden what used to be just like literally six months or 12 months before was just like. Oh, it's, too fuzzy it's social media became the yeah and what what we? What i see now is the same thing. It was very easy to measure a p l or to measure uh. You know someone's performance on these eight kpis and yet we've all seen businesses that have the kpi in the bag or leaders that check the boxes.

I can manage a p. L, like you know, tell the cows come home, but what we can't measure, but we know because we see it in the best leaders and the best creators and the best entrepreneurs in the world is emotional intelligence and i think, you've written the first book. That underscores. I think i i wrote that book in creativity and i think you wrote it.

I think you wrote it in emotional intelligence. I appreciate it, i'm really proud of it like i really you know for every listening. I created these scenarios because that's where everything comes from i'm more of a listener than i'm a talker which always you know, makes people laugh or freak out or disagree, but i always remind them. I'm, like you only see the content i put out and post produce very effectively like most of my day is the consumption of information and a lot of the scenarios are baked in the at this point.

Hundreds of thousands, if not even millions, of dms emails, that i've received over the last 15 years of this journey - and you know, there's just some really complicated stuff out there right like stay-at-home mom or dad, who still has a lot of fire in their belly and, Like what do you do here and like just all sorts of fun stuff that i went through and you know i really talk about accountability? Curiosity was a fun one for me to explore. You know i, and so i i structured the book out of these 13 ingredients - that i think really gives somebody a real shot in the business world and it's a life book. In that way, too, i called it 12 and a half, because this one really caught a lot of people off guard gary vee, the character, the public domain, speaker and pontificator, and content creator very good at candor, too good um, gary vaynerchuk, the ceo and human, very Bad at it, that's why i called it 12 and a half, and i called it kind candor my journey to making kind candor a half from a zero was because i started calling it kind candor instead of candor, because i saw back to your point. I saw candor for a long time as an excuse to be mean.

I saw candor as something that often created fear, but what i didn't have yet was the maturity to understand the vessel that kander was being delivered in was the vulnerability you know my my father was rough with his candor delivery. A lot of managers that were in that store were many people i came across in business in the 90s and 2000s. Were the candor? Wasn't the problem the the vessel that was delivering the candor wasn't kind, wasn't empathetic, but now that i've got a better sense, that of that separation? And then i was very self-reflective all the things that weren't working for me always pointed back always pointed back to lack of candor and um. So yeah i mean i i talk about these ingredients.

I talk about scenarios where three or four of them, it's really fun, to show people that ambition and patience can be played out in the same scenario. People think that's a contradiction. You know, and and so i really went, i really went there, you did. You did and of course, if you're uh, if you haven't included in yet we're talking about gary's new book 12 and a half leveraging the emotional ingredients necessary for business success.

But i'm going to add i'm going to extend your subhead a little bit. I would say business and personal success yeah, that's right, you know it's a business book and we have the same publisher, hollis yeah, and yet these skills, most of the people who listen to show, are identify as creators entrepreneurs, but the what i've learned is that the Same the same authenticity, transparency, the emotional ingredients that make one successful in business are absolutely critical to to to life. Think about the relationships that you have and i'm wondering, did your emotional intelligence develop because of business, or did your business acumen and emotional intelligence develop because of because of gary the human? It's so weird. It's such a fun question.

Thank you. My brain immediately goes into man it's hard, because this was all happening at six and seven and eight and nine. You know i talk a lot about this, i'm not sure people believe it. This has been a very big theme amongst my friends and relatives lately, probably because of the christie's thing you know you, you sit there and you have an event where, like five of your drawings, sell for a million dollars and - and you know and you're up there And you're out, selling pollock and warhol and you're like what the and then and then and then you go through the feelings of like knowing people are.

If i'm, what the then many people are like this is, and i get a lot of feedback from people. I grew up with that are like man. I wish they knew that all you used to do was doodle in class and on the chalkboard, and you know i was i'm you know. I've come to realize i'm dramatically more creative than i've thought about even the way.

As an entrepreneur, i've always thought of it as creativity, but i thought of it as strategy. You know, even though, in the last so many ways i now see them the same and so um. You know. I think i think for me when i talk about being a businessman at six seven and eight, there was a piece of content i put out recently where you know i do.

This thing called trash talk where i go garage sale and i put out youtube videos to teach people that it's out there and i give this young girl 20 for her lemonade and i'm walking back to the car and i'm talking about the reason i did. That was that happened to me when i was 10.. Some guy stopped on a bike filled up his lemonade and he gave us a ten dollar bill and you know i'm a 45 year old man. I was eight years old, so it's ten cents.

Well, it's ten dollars which was like four thousand dollars. It was actually the reverse right. It was ten dollars. No, i mean lemonade.

Your lemonade was ten cents. My lemonade was actually maybe 25 cents, but we've sold at 10 cents back then so, maybe and and - and so you know in the comments just the amount of it's amazing how cynicism is so prevalent like that - never happened that never happened and, like you know, a Couple of my both marissa bird and robbie turnick, who both happened to be there, were like. No, that really happened and something we've talked about for, and so you know it's it's. This really fun journey.

I've gone on a tangent. The answer is, i'm not sure i've been doing it so much for so long. I genuinely believe the talent of of human intuition was always there, but the refinement of these natural emotional skills being a leader of my friends at six like i was to you know, being 14 and being the son of the father who owned the liquor store and Interacting with clients and with employees, you know at 22. I was running the business like for real, so i just think i've.

You know at 45 years old. I have so much pattern, recognition and wisdom of reps from a kid. My mom last night sitting right here, was saying how often i spent time with 80 year olds as a four-year-old just would gravitate towards it, and so you know it's fun. I think i think um.

I think i'm very onto something with this book. I think it's going to really leave a positive impact, this conversation and i think, i'm going to build an empire, but i'm going to do it with honey, not vinegar. Well, that doesn't i i wouldn't disagree, seeing where you've set your ambitions in the past and what you've been able to achieve some something that's important. I think to establish in this conversation - and i know we're one of the earlier podcasts you've done in support of your new book.

I want to get firmly on the table that this is that these are. These are skills that are trainable and practicable, and once you have the awareness, the the understanding of what it is you're trying to cultivate that you can actually do this. So if someone sees themselves as not emotionally intelligent or has that what i would say is a bad habit, you articulated earlier around packaging candor in a sandwich because it it is actually under the guise of like hey, i'm going to be direct. You know and then and and though that's a terrible way of delivering say feedback, that's where you've wrapped it in kindness.

So these these concepts are not something that are removed from other skills or or the practice. If you will of creativity of understanding that you're creating and engaging in it so for the people who don't see themselves that way, would you give them a message about what you feel is possible um using the ingredients of your book with the their own emotional intelligence? I think a lot of people are looking for permission to bring their strengths on the eq side to the business world and i think i've been doing that, but not communicating it as much and that's why this is so. Aha for me. This is why people i deeply admire, who, i think, consume a lot of content.

Like yourself will say, i think this is the one. It makes a lot of sense to me because it is in the same way crush. It was the one it was like. I was uncomfortably right in that book, which is like hey you're gon na be able to make money not by having a job and not by having a startup and like the creator economy is ungodly exactly the way i laid it out same here.

I don't think it's going to be uncommon for people to believe that empathy and kindness and patience are like the alpha, not sharp elbows, not negotiation like when i hear things like: don't take it personal, it's just business, i'm like what part of cruelty is acceptable in Any scenario right when i think about people not realizing the world's abundant and actually want to tear down other people's, like you can't imagine how much i want everything to happen for you and everybody that looks like you and i right like like the level of cheering. I have for everybody who's a personality who might be amassing attention through content. That's why i've always loved your platform. I want everybody on it to, like, i don't think, like tim ferriss or kevin rose or arlen hamilton or like like brook morin, like, i, don't think any of their attention that they get for what they do, even though it might be tangentially touching.

What i do is taking out of me no, and i and i want people to i'm very competitive like this is not about like like i again. I don't know how hardcore you read it skimmed. It got a sense of it, but like this is not written in the sense of like oh, let's be fluffy, fluffy and eighth place. Trophy like, like tenacity, is one of the twelve and a half.

There's nothing soft about tenacity, right ambition. These are real things. You know but, but i i think people are confused. I think people are confused and then we had this whole era, and this is where this this book is actually seeded, probably 10 years ago, maybe 12.

When i realized. Oh, no. A lot of these kids think it's cool to be mean because steve jobs was considered, mean yeah, and i remember thinking man if i ever get to as big as i think i'm going to get, because i thought it and not that i'm steve jobs now, but, Like i have enough attention and enough success and enough pattern recognition and have seen it and witnessed it in enough other places, because it's not a focus group of one that i feel like. Maybe this conversation and i've been doing it quietly in my social and i think i really want this book to go viral because i wanted to change the temperament of leaders.

It's i'm going to do a little full circle moment here. So i'm sitting about 10 feet from when you were a wine guy and i'd seen your on viddler and i had one of the first. Certainly the first live show on the internet and one of the first podcasts and invited you. It was right after crush it and i believe, uh in parallel to what you're saying that this book that you've written here 12 and a half rivals the timeliness, the uh vision that crush it did we sat about 12 feet away from here.

At one moment you got on my lap, which was awesome but - and we talked about the same thing about what the future was going to tell about the moment that we were living in right there and uh you or we were. I think right on that, and i believe that, as i mentioned, that cycle of social media was very valuable and it became understood that it was valuable when we could measure it. I think the same thing is true with the traits that you talk about here. There's an understanding uh amongst the people who are doing it.

What what? What treat do you think doesn't even have to be one of the 12 and a half that you think you've most gotten better at as simple as that. Most you have gotten stronger at in. As your career has evolved, easy empathy, no question. My world view was built very much on hard charging.

You know uh there's a way and it's my way, and you know, as you mentioned totally and you mentioned being a leader, i've been the you know, the captain of every sports team ever played on. You know yeah. All of those things were true and ironically - and i will say actually sadly for me that was culturally reinforced over and over and over of course, and and when i i remember, started working with my wife, kate she came in was producing these, you know photo shoots In all of the world - and we have very different styles - we're very complimentary and i was sort of telling her how to get the best price on the helicopter. To fly.

To the thing. And - and you know - and my tactics were just just like, oh or worse - and she is the like - the kindest sweetest person in the whole world and i watched her - get further, negotiate better, have lasting relationships yeah in a matter me and my dad, my dad. I always you know, i always say dad you're a better negotiator to me, but i don't fully believe it and i always like - and he knows that i don't. He may win the battle, but he lost every war.

He might have gotten 50 cents more off. That bottle, but we i watched because i started 14 - we didn't not only do we not get good deals from those wineries anymore. At times people figured out my dad's game and i could tell because i was so in tune that they were starting at higher price points right, so they made him feel accomplished in his negotiation, but you know i, i think that's right. You know when i talk about this, and i want everybody to hear this in a world we live in now very polarizing left right, blue red.

This isn't about okay, let's, like take the teeth out of business like this is very much a business and life book. Like for achievement for success - and there is absolutely like it's a game, it's the best way i can put is, i think of it like football, which i obviously you know. I love a lot surprise when they play football, they beat the living at each other and they go hard. But when the game is over - and this drives me crazy as a fan because i'm mad that we lost - and i don't want you to buddy buddy with the other guy - we just lost, but they ask how the wife is.

I mean i, you know now, i'm very into that world. They talk about things like hey i'd, love, to give a donation to your charity, you'd be blown away by the stuff, that's actually being talked on the field, and you know this, but, like you did at a younger level like this is the professional level, and i See business that way, this is win, let's win, but believe it or not. Back, like your your incredible partner there, you can win with more hearts than daggers for sure and to see it in in turn that helped me deconstruct what she was doing and recognize that as soon as you can, you know experience some of the challenges that someone Else is experiencing and at work and that realize that they have a boss and connect around the fact that it's hard and we're just going to both try and do right by one another or you know, or some myriad example you know, was very powerful there. One thing i talk a lot about in this book is optimism.

If you've decided it's bad, it's already bad yeah, like you know like they give you this like cynicism, and pessimism is a game changer for people. It is awful, it is a. It is a game over before you started. I have room in my life for a lot of things and in my business for a lot of things, cynicism is not one of them.

I i literally i got. I got it. I got no space for it. So again, the other thing that i want to just say: real, quick, that's drock the other day like hey.

So what hit you? Because we just did the audio book and he was filmed the making of it. Then the book and he's like it's the perspective part. It's when you talk about like a billion people, not having clean water, like it's truly like what i realized in this book, and i didn't really put the nail in the coffin, but it's very clear to me what i did in this book. The other thing i did in this book in hindsight was talk about something i never talk about.

I'm not even sure i've articulated this yet in content. So here you go. I can't, even as i'm about to try right now ever fully articulate to people how little i think business matters. There is something yeah.

I will. I love what i do. I love my process. I love the game, i'm all that i appear to be from a passion standpoint about this, but if, if the concept of business was wiped off the earth tomorrow, i'm incredibly okay with that like to me, it just doesn't mean that much and people have so much Pressure in the workplace, especially entrepreneurs and employees, and like i'm just i realized.

Oh i'm dan, you know they say like a desperate fighter is a dangerous fighter in a boxing match, and i feel like it's really weird to say this. This balance of massive ambition, massive with equal content, is mind-boggling and a lot of what i undertone in this book is like. You can eliminate a lot of anxiety if you realize what actually matters. Well, it's been enjoyable watching that evolve from days where you and i were putting videos on viddler remember.

There was no youtube, of course, and i i liked it because you could like pick which dot you could see which wine i drank i mean even when there was youtube i wanted to be on vidler, because i thought the tagging mattered so much for my content. Yeah - and it turns out that that's now google searching inside of video so that you can do exactly that, what is it it's 15 years later now the fact that we've been doing this for 15 uh 15 years together is that's a little bit of a head. Scratcher and fun for me, the fact that you look younger 15 years later is the real head scratcher. Let's all give this man a lot of love.

Please leave that comment on social of how right i am about that uh. Well, we need to get together again soon before i let you go man. I've got a couple of things about and i'm going to read a text that you sent me a short while ago chase my man. Where are you with nfts - and we mentioned your auction at christie's, which is, is exceptional um in in many ways, but i don't think it's separate from this book and here's here's i'm going to make the connection and then i want you to talk about nfts.

The connection between the book is awareness, empathy connection these soft skills historically referred to as soft, but actually are the core. There's just there's a um like a an awareness of who you are where the opportunities are and you and you are embracing nfts uh early and big because they are going to be so huge um. What's let's, let's give a the shortest crash course that you feel like you can on the gv lens on nft asap. Okay, digital ownership is here and that's it like it's an incredibly simple statement, but it's incredibly difficult for everybody, because we've just gone through 20 years of non-digital ownership.

All of us listening grew up with 20 plus years of the internet, more where you didn't own it. As a matter of fact, even the people that own the ip didn't own it so it was the extreme other way. We were all using creative freedom. With all this stuff, we were almost taught that, like people started realizing the attention was worth more than the actual monetizing of the expression.

It's what hurt major league baseball? They tried to monetize everything, so he couldn't find any of their content on social except their channels, and the sport decreased in popularity. We all bought into that and there's an incredible level of truth to that comma. We now have something called blockchains. Blockchains can understand.

Who owns certain things and we will now start owning certain things? No different than owning a sheep in farmville or a outfit in you know, fortnite and the and the things we will buy will follow the things like mercedes cartier. We will express ourselves through our ownership. I would never flash a half a million dollars in a bank account. I will tomorrow flash my proud ownership of a crypto punk.

That's how humans work. That's how why we buy art. That's why we do things even if we're not talking about extreme wealth or wealth or even middle class wealth. Let's just talk about why somebody wants a pair of air jordans at the end of the day, right, it's expression and the same way you care about a blue check, mark whether you do or not.

We can all agree. Many do the same way you care about. Following count, whether you do or not, i think we can all agree. Billions do well that's what's about to happen with what's in your wallet and i believe your public wallet will become a greater insight to who you are than even the pictures you post on social, because they're less manipulatable, and so i think this digital ownership and expression And then the underlying technology of nft is where you can transfer leases and homes, and it's it's profound.

It is profound, it is internet one internet two. This is why it's called internet three nfts are the biggest thing. That's happened since social 05 or internet 95, and everybody listening must must please for your. I mean it's not going to take any skin out of my back, but please, if you're listening to this.

Knowing this audience, please spend 20 hours of real homework and don't say no or whatever or nah, say, maybe and then build all right, very, very uh, real world scenario. Ugv give me advice right now on nfts. You need to spend 20 hours so that you can put out a project and sell some original photography with access to you, underneath it just to learn for a man of many words that was pretty good you're. Tightening your program, aren't you, i just it'll, be so easy for you, because you care about community you'll.

Understand that. Okay, i'm going to take these 25 photos. I've never shown anybody in the world i'm going to nft them. I will whoever buys it i'll give them.

The physical print and i will give all 25 of them an evening a full day with me, a working session and a dinner, and i have a funny feeling: 25 people will buy that nft and by the way i would be one of those people why. I believe in your career, i believe in your future and i would say to myself: oh, i might be able to sell that nft for a profit in 12 years, as he continues to ascend. It's not super complicated, all right. What's the uh, what's the insight? We've talked about uh emotional intelligence, your new book 12 and a half nfts i'm trying to use those as just very cornerstone examples of the work that you're doing now.

What is the thing that is not on the radar now that has that's that you are equal for me for me, for me, it will be long-form storytelling. There is no scenario of me leaving this world without me putting out meaningful television and film. I just have too many stories that i want to tell um. What's the first one going to be there's a basketball player by the name of connie hawkins who got banned from the nba, and i think it's an incredibly important story because i think it's unjust and so that's on my mind, um and then and then you know I'll, probably get forced into animation v.

Friends is insane what i'm actually doing yeah, and so you know, probably my first at-bat will be where i am right now, in b, friends, land, an animated film or movie around patient panda and empathy elephant. Who, i do think, are my woody and buzzier buzz lightyear. You know those are the two kind of like alphas of the optimus prime and you know kind of the the the alphas in my universe so we'll see, but i have i have a lot most of what i'm gon na do is gon na sit under the Foundation of these emotional traits right, like humanity, man, uh well, i've always enjoyed our conversations. I want to keep this one tight.

Congratulations on the new book. The christie's thing is huge and if you, if you haven't been following along you've, been living under a rock look that one up, because it's a good one, how uh gary cracked a millie through a christie's auction, uh with a hand with a i mean you can't Even keep a straight face, it's it's just so real and and by the way, i think, by the way on on the record. Let nobody be confused. The laughing is like nervous excitement, but totally, but there will be no chance that that will not be a good investment for the people that bought it.

I am going to build disney, i'm going to now. I might you know - maybe i pass too soon, maybe whatever, but i do believe, oh next, 30 years, that i will make these characters incredibly culturally relevant, and you know i'm obsessed with over-delivering for everybody who owns a v-friend nft or the five people that now own. The original art - well, i do not doubt that for a half second, i don't think i've doubted you. I do enjoy every once, while seeing our sometimes mutual friends aka, like chris sacca, for example, talking a little here and there and then uh.

We creators and entrepreneurs have a way of uh of being right. We've been wrong plenty of times, but it's been fun to watch. You've got an outstanding part about soccer. The best part about the way i like to roll two is we all love to have hot takes.

I think his is a little bit. Tongue-In-Cheek he's. Actually, i think, just being incredibly nice to me giving some love to this project, but um. You know it's really really cool to watch.

A lot of us evolve over the last 15 years and i'm like excited for the next 15.. I can't wait to see which solid, solid, solid, acquaintance or friend or very good friend becomes governors and presidents and, like you know, our generation, our call it 38 to 52 crew is now going into that next year and uh. I just think it's gon na be a lot of fun to see how it all breaks out. It is if life is seasons, i'm very much looking forward to the next season.

Uh there's a lot of a lot of folks that are in our friend circles and people that uh those listening and watching now would know on the internet, who are doing exciting things. It makes it uh very fun to be. A part of this show included appreciate your time, always my man. We got lots to connect on uh offline love.

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