Just like some people will speak about the Sammy Sosa McGuire ERA This is an era that will always be talked about in sports cards when I'm 90 God willing on some sort of podcast maybe in the Metaverse in VR or who the hell knows where technology will be 2018 to 22, 19 to 21 2020 like that will be a thing was Kobe that thing that happened back then a factor. What else was a factor? and so I think that's kind of uh, that's how I see it Gary Vaynerchuk Welcome to Sports Cards Live! How are you doing pal? I'm well, brother, how are you I'm good I'm good Gary It only took me about two and a half years to get you on the show. Welcome, thank you for making the time I Gotta do something somewhat ceremonial right off the bat I gotta grab that take that off my wall that's been up there for two and a half years I'm pumped I'm very flattered my friend. thank you thank you for coming on.

So listen, we don't have a ton of time I'm gonna jump right in. and I want to get your thoughts on the trajectory that the hobby has been through since 2019. the national in 2019 where I first met you through the pandemic to today. What are your thoughts? you know? I Think it's an industry that got much broader.

uh, awareness. much like many Industries Sneakers, Nfts cards. Um, anything social media like markets. Um, it's a market that I think is in a really healthy, solidified place because it went through its underrated period.

Potentially, it's overrated period. In this cycle, you know we had the McGuire era, we had the 80s junk wax era. You have these moments where two three four years but every time you look at it I find like the industry evolves and gets stronger. Sports cards have been a thing in popular culture obviously for over a hundred years and have had real understood value now for almost a half a century, right? And so you're good.

Like any Market it's going to have its ebb and flow. Contemporary Art Antiques this is Coins Stamps You know, like things have their Ebbs and flows I think this last one was incredibly healthy and Incredibly vulnerable meaning vulnerable Because like base cards of like speculative players, you know you're going to get hurt on that. You're going to get hurt on those kind of things just like I did with Todd Van Popple and Brian Thomas like Brian Taylor excuse me that you know that's you saw that happening during this era which is why I stayed very narrow because I learned in my teens and 20s about that. On the flip side, the amount of people that have come into the industry is extraordinary and so I think the Hobby and I've been watching The Hobby pretty carefully now for the last year.

I Think it's at a very healthy place where it seems like there's rationale to things versus just hyperbole. Um, and you know that's exciting and and healthy And you know I think um, it's been a moment just like I Talk about the mid to late 80s and early 90s, right? The upper Deck era. Just like some people speak about the Sami Sosa McGuire era, right? This is an era that will always be talked about in sports cards when I'm 90 God willing on some sort of podcast maybe in the Metaverse in VR or who the hell knows where technology will be? You know that 2018 to 22, 19 to 21, 2020 like that will be a thing was covered. That thing that happened back then a factor.

what else was a factor And so I think that's kind of. uh, that's how I see it I Completely agree with you that the Hobby's in a great place right now. We had a lot of transients come through over the past couple of years and I think those that stick it out will be successful and some of them left and we're in a healthy Place Uh, healthier than ever those those people that left. They're also chasing real estate, chasing nft like like.

and what's great is a lot of people that came in that might have left fell in love. Yeah, right. Like, like people don't talk about that when an industry gets a lot of awareness. Sports is a very revered thing and non-sports cards are always around pop culture right? Like you know, like I'm just pumped to see how many people came in to be Pastor buyers and day Traders but I've actually stayed you know obviously I'm I'm aware of how present I was during that time and you know a lot of people, acquaintances, former high school friends, young kids that follow me on social.

so many of them have stayed in a very significant way. You know for me what I I mean I'm I'm looked at all the auctions this last Friday looking and I'd bid on things you know that you know very recently um and are making my bets I just got into a place where my profile got into a place where I realized me sharing things led to a lot of like you know like just speculate like just people making up stories just got muckery and so I was like look that's okay like you know do does it suck because I want to talk about the things I'm excited about sure but am I am I able to like execute and go to local card shops almost every weekend and I'm so pumped for I was at the national and aggressive way last year. a lot of V friends stuff but was buying cards for my collection picked up another PSA 10 Jordan um I'm also I'm like soap I'm like already counting down the days to Chicago and I'm trying to find some strategies of like how to get back in a little bit more public without people speculating on the cards that I buy. Yeah, I think that's one of my questions was going to be your with your level of influence.

how do you feel about publicly sharing the cards that you are buying? Has it changed all over the past few years because I see some of the controversy around you when you do this and to me it seems like you like you genuinely love the hobby I see your passion at the national I One of the things that attracts me to Nfts is all my wallets are public and people can see that I don't buy and sell I buy what I want like and like The things that I'm excited about are like just very sound players like I don't try like I'm not speculating on Bobo or like you know Purdy you know what I mean like I like to me I learned those lessons in my teenage years. so when I was buying Giannis or LeBron or Jordan or you know, the ramp these are like Pele like these are not things that are like you know that? That was probably what was toughest for me I didn't anticipate P you know because I thought everything I was buying was so sound that it wouldn't feel like and because I wasn't selling any of it like I felt pretty confident but like I get it like I mean Jesus when there's money involved, there's all sorts of going on. and I'm not naive to my you know the size and scale of my audience and so I'm desperately trying to figure out how to share my passion for it without creating speculation I have not been able to figure that out and so I'm trying to. yeah, you know I also have a fairly big baseball practice in Vayner Sports and like it's very addicting to like sign a player and then like want to buy their first Bowmans because like you're literally that close to it.

So and I think that's pure speculation no matter how good our draft picks are. You know, a Bowman first is as scary as it gets, especially if you go on the high end. you're spending real money on a very unlikely outcome. Most prospects don't get to where you want them to go.

Um, so I don't know like it's um I Love sports cards. It's something that's been in me my whole life. I'm paying actually a lot of attention to it lately because of the calm pricing feels more appropriate right now and I'm trying to be thoughtful about it and like and I did well. You know you know plenty of things that I own because I held everything are way down from their highs like anybody.

but I also bought early for a lot of stuff. It wasn't like I was buying at the highs or speculating and so like whether it's Kabooms or vintage basketball cards or like you know, like I Feel pretty good about what I have and I'm excited about. you know, like building on my collection going forward. Great! You said, you're paying a lot of tensions right now you're actually bidding on some cards I don't know if you're aware, but on uh, every night that every one Thursday per month when Pwcc's Premiere auction ends I Come I do a live show on this channel.

Oh that's cool. bottom. Great Pwcc and we talk about the items I want to invite you to come check it out. sit in the tune in while you're looking at it.

A lot of people do that. It's a lot of fun I will What? what time do you do it at? We go live at 9 30 Eastern because it's the the extended bidding starts at 10 o'clock Eastern so that's really fun. I will definitely turn around for like three and a half hours talking about all the items. It's great! It's a lot of fun that's super neat.

I Will check that out one time right on. So where do you see the hobby heading in 2023 and Beyond Beyond Ebbs and flows like any Market that is around Collectibles and art and things of that nature. 2023 is impossible because we don't really have a good understanding of the stability or non-stability of the current economy like you know every day that 10 000 people get laid off at Google and Microsoft and Spotify is another person that makes good money that uses their disposable income to buy like a card that they've always wanted that's taking them off the board that money comes off the board that ends up dropping the prices and supplying demand. So I think it could be.

You know if you told me cards are down another 30 off their High be like uh-huh if you told me we've hit the floor and you're gonna see a 10 increase I'd be like like the logic is there for me to understand either path. I am not a map you know when I got all hot years ago I just saw seven to ten trends that were all colliding at the same time. sneakers was a big part of it I saw a lot of entrepreneurial sneaker kids not be able to get inventory anymore and we're looking for something they could get inventory for and I saw that clearly I went to Cleveland National you know which was what? 18 right? I think 17 or 18. yeah 17.

all right 17 I think or 18 right to your point 17 I think and I was able to like see it on the ground I was like oh these kids are like you know, uh basketball was ripping hot. You know there was just like a lot of things happening. they were just also in Ex: I was buying Luca bases at 30 bucks it was just like the buy-in was lower. Um, so you know I think that.

um I think that that is not what I'm seeing now which is like it's super underpriced against the man that was coming. This is more like it's normalized and now the economic situation will have an impact. you know? And so I would say I'm guessing down another 30 up, a 10 to 20 generalization feels like my super guess of 2023. Uh, but that's all right.

Pure Gas You know? One comment you just said is that when somebody buys an item, they're now off the board. they don't need it anymore. And that's one of the issues I have with with relying on comps All the time is. well, yeah, that's the comp.

but if the under bidder gets another cut and gets a copy or the the under bidder isn't competing now with the eventual winner, so the price might come down unless there are new participants and we're getting more and more people who want to buy them. So there's that snowball effect of the hobby growing more participants coming in. We've surely experienced that between 19 and 22. Now we're kind of in a place where we're hoping to, to, uh, retain as many of these people as we can.

That's the challenge of the hobby that I have a lot of empathy for. which is demand creation versus Purity You know I have so much empathy if you're a pure collector, literally have no thought of ever selling your cards. Spike up moments are disappointing because the things you want go up if you are an investor which you're allowed to be that I always thought was super interesting. like that people in the hobby on any direction like I hated when people that day traded and flipped would make fun of collectors I'm like why who are you to tell people what they want to do but also on the flip side, if you're a collector, you know what do you want like dictatorship? like you don't want people to be allowed to buy something and sell it like it's really it's really hard and I'm empathetic depending on what side someone sits on it.

but you know to me it's kind of like the baseball issue. the culture of baseball didn't allow Bryce Harper to like build the sports popularity. The humility and the tradition of baseball and hockey is a direct correlation to its popularity. And you know one thing I was fascinated by with sports cards is like oh there's a lot of like.

You know, it's almost like people want certain things from individuals or organizations that bring awareness to the Hobby but they don't want other things and that's just not how life works like you know, we don't get to pick and choose like and so like yeah, like that's what you know. That's what happens like if you're gonna hair down companies, media properties, organizations, individuals that are bringing awareness to the Hobby you know there's going to be an effect on how much new attention is on the Hobby and that you know impacts supply and demand curves and that might be a good thing or that might be a bad thing. I Don't really I You know I'm very detached for the get from the garyvee of it all. I'm overly empathetic to people that make up stories about me like I'm being that serious.

It's because they love it. Like when some kid was that I knew was like telling somebody else like I bought a bunch of Zions and I'm unloading them and I never bought a single Zion because I had a big thesis that he was too injury prone and it was too high risk and plus Panini printed an ungodly amount of product that year is my thought. You know he was like Ken Griffey Jr To me if everything went well, you know, Um, that's like disappointing. but like I'm empathetic.

Why? like people come from a place of scarcity and fear? Um, so for me it's been easy. but I've watched a lot of people leave. A lot of companies leave because there's a lot of tearing down in the hobby. just like there is in every part.

like I Don't think the hobby or the industry has any more tearing down than others. I Just think it's small. like when you in politics. when you keep tearing down, politics are big.

in social media, those are big and Wall Street they're big in sports cards. If you turn away 13 to 50 organizations or people that could have an impact, Yeah, yeah for sure. So as we as we wrap up just one or two more minutes Gary you mentioned you'll be at the National in Chicago in July August Are you going to be the mint Collective of the Burbank show in February no I'm like my schedule's really tough I want to get to a Dallas show that's been um I really want to get to a Dallas show I'm going to some local shows in Jersey in New York I'm just between family allocation like I think people forget that I run a 2 000 person company in vaynerx Be friends is a real real you know time constraint I got a lot to do there with building out that intellectual property. uh I'm the the card stuff I've been by the way, that's been super fun for me.

The cards and the friends like two passions of mine colliding has been super fun. but the national is a commitment that I like lock in um and then like I really want to get to one Dallas show this year that was like a priority of mine. maybe the fall and then I'm going to like the Westchester and like northern Jersey stuff. so keeping a you know, trying to and honestly very like I kind of like at this point in my life it's a little bit of like this.

you know, like I'm trying to I just honestly I just want to provide value and I don't want to provide distraction and I was really happy the value I was able to create but then at some point I'm empathetic that it became a little bit bigger and then like I don't I have no interest in creating anything that people perceive as negative. so I'm trying to stay pretty Incognito in those shows and then at the national I want to bring as many people from my universe to the National because yeah, they may want to come and take a selfie with me, but I'm hoping it leads to them discovering the love of this and they pick up a Nolan Ryan rookie from that dealer or they you know that that That was incredibly satisfying for me in the last couple years. people literally just coming driving three hours to Atlantic City to ask me a business question. they come, they take a selfie business question and then four hours later like no interest in cards and four hours later they came back to my table and they're like I bought this I was like you bought a Tom Seaver rookie card it was my favorite pitcher.

when I was like that's when I'm like oh, I'm having a positive impact on the market. Right on. Well I Saw your boots at the Nationals last year. It was low-key It was great.

Your passion exudes uh from me As a lifelong passionate collector. Do me one favor before we sign off. Give a shout out to my buddy Jason We call him the worm dog. He's a big fan of yours worm dog.

Thank you for the love I Hope I See you a bunch of times at these shows and throughout the upcoming years my friend right on. Thank you Cheers bro! Stay well.