I Actually do think it's important that you're just proud of your kids for who they are, so they don't think that they have to do X Y or Z to make you love them to make them proud of you. I Think what you and I are talking about is actual self-esteem instead of manipulated self-esteem. The only way you'll get self-esteem is if you know you're actually good at something. Yeah like I Don't think everyone could be an all-world Hall of Fame X but I'm sure right now someone's an accountant who could have been one of the really significantly top five percent auto mechanics.

You know you talk about it and I talk about a ton of taste things. AV Audio Experience Vayner Nation I'm pretty sure what I'm about to say is true. Uh, the gentleman that is joining me today is probably the guest that has most been on my podcast in the history of my podcast. I Think this is the third time he's on my podcast I've been on his once I don't think I have a three-time podcast guest.

Uh, if anyone thinks they are, please email me and I apologize. But the reason is this is one of truly my favorite individuals that I've come across in my almost 30 years now professional career. um I I like him I like what he stands for I like how he goes about his business and he's got a new book. When the team reached out and said Hey Rye podcast what do you think I said yes and and it's just as easy as a yes as it comes I'm excited to know what the new book's about I'm excited that he's in person and not on Zoom because that's always an extra good element and uh, that's all I Got to say so Ryan Holiday? How are you dude? It's always good to see you.

You're good. the best. Yes, of course you decided not to age something that I noticed when as soon as you walked in like this looks the same every time I see him I I Guess you too though. you get out of here.

Um, but it's a dignified thank you I do feel a little bit more significant. Um, speaking of significance: I Know that you won't write unless you've got something to say. so let's get right into it because we don't have a ton of time. One page a day? a piece of Timeless advice that makes you better at what's obviously your most important job, which is being a better parent I Love it.

So the daily? Dad Yes, um, 366. there's a leap day, is there? Yeah, Well, of course. So so the day when the daily story came out I knew nothing about this medium. the idea of like a one page a day book and you know you go.

There's 365 days a year, but no, what? if you read it in a year where there's a leap year, you've got a service that day. Talk to me about this genre because I think that would fit my content well. I think I'm about to yeah I'm about to get excited here right now and come up with my next book. Dude, when when my agent suggested I do a daily book I said why I said well because people are interested in stoicism.

but where do they start right? right? If I hear about interview, which of your books should I start with it's not. It's a question you can't really answer. It's like when you're like you hear a band which one should I start with yeah like Greatest Hits I like that the greatest hits and so that's what. that's what the daily thing is.

So Dan Stoko is one quote and then a story each day inspired by Stone philosophy. This is the parenting version of that Facebook Sold almost two million copies. Now what's that? The Day of Stock has sold almost 2 million copies now. Crushed.

Good for you which I never would have expected Went viral. Well, totally viral because there's something not just about reading one page a day, but reading one page a day every year. So books that you can return to over and over again are really, really powerful. I Love that.

and there there's this stoic idea that we never step in the same river twice. so the page is the same, but we're different a hundred percent. and I think it's it's the biggest people Ask me all the time. why do you feel why do you continue to make content and I'm like because I don't know if this is going to be the day where even though I'm saying the same 17 things, I'm seeing them in different contexts I'm speaking about current events so it might hit a different about AI or blockchain or Tick Tock that was different than Facebook or search engine optimization but I know that today might be the day and by the way I know that because I get dozens and dozens of emails and DMS every day saying today was the day I've been hearing the same about patients I have no idea why this YouTube short got me but it finally clicked I was talking to one of your content guys and they were like Gary says I forget the number that they're like Gary says X things he has like this is the things that you do but you do them when you're traveling different places.

the question's slightly different. what's happening in the in the world is slightly different and that's the same idea that that same P You've been doing this one riff for 15 years now, but because of what's happening in the world because the the then if the algorithm uh serves it up, it suddenly resonates with someone. Also because there's this great expression when the teacher when the student is ready, the teacher so you've been doing the same content but the person wasn't ready to hear it. And what's been really fun for me in this last three to four years is I've sensed very clear self-awareness shifts as well.

For example, in my last book I spoke about having a real vulnerability around Candor So I didn't even know to talk about Candor 10 years ago because I hadn't gone through the Journey of the gray hairs of recognizing. Whoa! This is one of my kryptonites in a world where I have a lot of success and a lot of happiness. Oh, most of the things that have not gone well for me professionally and personally was my inability to be candorous out of not being interested in Conflict which threw everyone for a loop that didn't know me because on stage in podcasts I can be very kind of direct and cameras but in real life when I love someone my teammates people I love it was hard for me because I don't want to I Always thought that it made people scared and so I had to go through my own Journey so that becomes a part of your content. So for everyone listening we have our things we believe in but then we also have our life Journey which can add things to the repertoire.

My wife said something to me the other day that's related to that I wonder what you think She said we're being too nice and we don't have any room left to be kind I think what that is is like. She's probably defining that as the nice facade as an overreaction to the pressures of our society being quite not cordial. We've lost civility. People don't know how to have a civil disagreement.

We've got into full sixth grade mode. Yeah, every single 40 year old is sixth grade. Now we just make fun of each other until social media to absurd it's devastating. and I think I understand exactly what your wife is saying.

It's it's you know what? where I think she's going is Sometimes telling someone the truth is the nicest thing you can do for them. but we're also politically correct if we're overly affected by the meanness in society I am so empathetic to what you said I think she was also saying like we're being nice to these people that we don't know and then we're not. We don't have any room left at home with our kids like, well, it's so nice and we're not. But then we're We don't have patience with our six-year-old because we used it all up.

Yeah, that's a call that was taking too long. I Have this: Theory I've been thinking a lot about for taking the best people in your life for granted and working on the people. So you're like taking the people that give you energy. yeah, or affirm your energy for granted.

and you're spending all your time and energy trying to fix the people in your life that are sucking your energy out. And so it's This is a scenario where nice guys finish last. You know one of my I'm actually gonna make a t-shirt Nice Guys Finish First Nice Guys Finish First is a piece of content I need to make immediately because I'm like really stuck on it I've always said like the biggest statement in the world is nice guys finish last now I'm just like it. I'm gonna bring it even further.

nice guys finish first. But in the micro, a place where nice people finish in a peculiar spot is when the people around them take them for granted because they've been so consistently good and you know it's like one parent versus the other, one sibling versus the other, one relationship versus the other At work, you're spending so much time trying to fix the bottom 20 instead of putting the energy in the top 20. There's a lot of that. I Was thinking about this like think about all the nonsense we put up with, like we'll listen to someone's boring story.

We'll pretend to be interested in this or that and then our kid wants us to wants to talk to us about some video games and we're just like I can't It's so like such a good point, We'll fake it with people who don't matter and then we can't will ourselves to be interested or to put it in with the people who really do matter. Boy do I love that that it's taking you for granted. Yeah, you're taking your child for granted versus being civil in society because you want to stand up stability in a time where it's not makes so much sense. Let's get into the book: Yeah, so you went a little more so when I hear two million copies daily stuff that can work for everyone? Yeah, you went with the daily Dad yes instead of the daily parent? Yes, talk to me through that I decided because I know you? Yeah.

and when I say this everyone at home when I say I know you I've known O'Brien for a long time. Then we surrendered this serendipitally kind of interacted at a conference that led to a deeper relationship. and I've really gotten to know Rye because he's you know now part of Vayner's speakers, our speaking bureau. We've gotten close.

We've done it the best. Thank you. You know man, you're in the theater in L.A right? Yeah. I Will never forget that day I Saw you there like we've had some limited interactions to that point and like every part of my Spidey senses, we were just starting Vader speakers.

Every part of my Spidey senses was like this kid is like where I was like he's destined to be so much bigger if he has the right partner in crime. We are definitely the right partner in crime at this time and it just watching you and Zach build your public speaking career has been one of the most enjoyable little micro. Parts in my business life. five years it's been huge for me.

I'm very, very grateful. so is my family. So I know you. you're a marketer and an author and you got a lot to you.

I Feel like I do so I can sense it. You consciously decided to make the audience more narrow on this because I know you debated it because I know you too well. You had to have debated it at least in your mind, even if not on paper. Talk to me through that strategy.

Yeah, right. Daily Stoic is Broad And then obviously there are lots of parents. There's not really any good parenting books for men. most of them are terrible, they're patronizing, or they're written for women.

but I did feel like look, what good is it to be successful to have a broad hit if you can't use that credibility that success, that relationship with the audience to do something you really care about that you really want to do and I've gotten better every day from writing the daily dad email and from writing the book and from making the content so it's something and being in debt. and and again, if you don't use your success s to make stuff like Casey and I said said this to me. we don't make art to make money. We make money to make more art.

Yeah right. and and I I wanted to do it. So obviously I care about the book I know it's by the way, that line that Casey said to you is so right. like Mr Beast is living that at scale right now Like all like I've watched that whole journey.

Yeah, talk about someone who really lives that yes and it's just so obvious I guess that is the money. It's why I think I'm a good entrepreneur I want to be an entrepreneur more than anything I just need to stay. The money's the oxygen to continue to make up. Yes, and that's what.

you know that that when I say make up. That's slang for being very creative and coming up with all sorts of different things. but I would say almost half the audience of the Daily Dad is women. It makes sense as a dad I feel weird calling the Daily Parent because I don't I can't speak to the a woman or somebody else's experience other than my own.

but I don't know. It's also like the Daily Dad had something to it that the Daily Parents 366 Meditations On Parenting, love, and Raising great kids you know, do when I sign it I cross out kids and I write adults because that was one of the best things I ever heard someone said I'm not raising kids I'm raising I Like that, right? You don't want a kid? No I get it right. Like I like that which one of them most hit you So I think when I wrote 12 and a half, yeah and I was like I'm gonna put a half in there and talk about something I think is massively important to be a successful leader and I'm going to show my vulnerability yeah, so that people feel comfortable realizing some of the stuff that comes natural. or I'm good at that.

They might be vulnerable and everybody has a half writing that made me better I can't like it. Helped me get better at Candor because I was going through the process knowing that you take the process even more seriously than I do. at least from my perspective. Which one of these daily meditations 366 like after you kind of thought it through or wrote it down or put it to bed where you like tonight.

as soon right now, I'm walking out of wherever I am and I'm gonna be better at this for my kids. Yeah, there's a line from Seneca Who says we can't choose our parents? but we can choose whose children we want to be. We can't choose our parents, but we can choose whose children we want to be. So it doesn't matter where you came from.

the flaws of your parents, the flaws of your culture. Uh, the flaws of generations past. You decide how it's going to be in your family and what you're going to pass down to them in his Broadway show. Springsteen Talked about this.

He says we can be an ancestor or a ghost, right? A ghost haunts your kids, passes on generational traumas, bad habits, weaknesses, just our flaws. and an ancestor is someone that guides our kids that inspires them that helps us work through the past to be better in the future. And I think what? I'm what? I think we're all trying to do is give the good stuff that we got from our parents to our kids. but also give them what we didn't get what we needed when we were 10 and we were an awkward kid in glasses, or we were lonely, or we were artistic or whatever it is we're trying to give them what we didn't get, how much this just gets me to a thing that I'm spending a lot of time on why or how much or what do you see with the concept of victim or leaning into accountability.

So one of the I'm very interested in modern parenting it. You know it's so fascinating to watch so many parents execute exactly what they were upset about with that their parents did to them onto their kids. I have so many parents 30, 40, 50 year olds that I've interacted with that are are Hall of Fame at being victims My parents My parents at 42 years old. Yeah, at 52 years old.

at 62 years old and 29 years old, it's funny that you just went to where you went. Where do you sit on like the modern world's lack of being in love, with accountability and realizing they can control this? It might be. The essence is still philosophy is the idea that we don't control what's happened to us, but we control how we respond to what's happened to us. So what happened to you might have been unfair.

It might have been awful. It might have been unjust. It might be something that haunts you to this day, but it's still on you to decide the end of that story. Where it's going right? So when I go to therapy when I read books, when I have conversations late at night with my wife, when I'm thinking about stuff working on on stuff in my life, it's about being better and doing better.

It it's not accepting that the past dictates the future and I think that you can. You can accept and deal with and process and articulate the things that you went through in life. But that doesn't change the fact that here in the present moment, you've got to do something about it and you can write the end of that story. Which do you think the Judgment of others dictates people's inability to like change that perspective? I Mean, isn't that the real problem with parenting too is that everyone is thinking about what the other parents are doing and not what they think is right or what.

what's important. That's everything. Yeah to me, the keeping up with the Joneses and the Judgment of the Joneses is the thing I think about every day. Yeah, like I just I am crippled by how many people continue to wake up tomorrow and do a lot of things singularly based on three to nine people's opinions and not their own opinion about themselves and their wants and needs.

which is why I continue to talk about this concept of spending time with the elderly that are not your grandparents because you really start to get a perspective of regret that I think if you had that perspective, you know it changes everything I think a lot about like I wish I knew what I knew now like everybody's life would be better if you're at 18, understood everything you would feel. at 38, you'd be more patient, you'd be more like you'd be different. and so I think one of the ways to get that is to get wisdom from others. And yes, I think it's the whole thing right? I Know This Woman's her name is Dolores she's 94.

I Call her my grandmother and I was talking to her the other day and she was telling me her big regret was that when her kids were little she took pride in how clean her house was and she said people used to come over and go. it doesn't look like you have kids and that meant something to her, right? And now we do this like we look at influencers. And what was her point that she didn't let her kids have a little room to play and get dirty? Her point was how hollow that seems in retrospect. of course, let him color on the walls.

Have fun! Yes today people are going to be looking at Instagram reels and they they get a false version of what people's houses look like. They don't realize that just out of frame is all the same toys that are on the floor in your house. And so when I look at my house I want it to look like I have kids because I do have kids and they're a central part of my life in existence and I don't And and so when you talk to people who are older who have been through it, you can get perspective. There's this great expression that, um, any fool can learn by experience.

We want to learn from the experience of others and talk to people who've been through it who are on way on the other side and you realize a lot of the things you're valuing as a pair parent, things you're feeling guilty about as a parent, things you're comparing yourself to against in other parents. They will not matter to you in the end. Not only will they not matter they may dictate your behavior to something that actually creates the real vulnerability. Yeah, my argument is like, of course yeah.

Think about when you're 17. what you care about grades like a pimple on your forehead, like what car the other kids got like college. Like all of it. At 38, you're like what the well, what do you think is going to happen with kids? It's gonna be the same game and you know I think that the thing that I'm spending a lot of time thinking about is like what are the mod mod do you touch on in the book some of the modern Dynamics I'll give you an example: I'm really worried about eighth place trophies because I not because I want to be mean to kids because I think we taught a whole generation that Merit and the truth is not real and then they get into the real world and they're struggling with because they've demonized losing I think the concept of demonizing losing is very very dangerous because then you're scared of losing and life is tons of micro losses and the quicker you can get adapted to it.

I Do see a very big correlation of people as Elders being comfortable with micro losses and I think when you take away micro losses like it's okay. if your soccer team sucked, it's okay. like and we try to do these things to protect and then in essence it's like you know, bubble babies and they get sick all the time, right? Or like zoo animals don't do well in the wild when you let them loose thoughts on that my oldest is doing Jiu Jitsu Right now and when he comes home I Don't ask him. did he win? I Asked him what he learned right? what did you work on today? What did you get better at today? Yeah, so it's of course competition is an important part of life and I think uh, telling people that winning doesn't matter is wrong.

But also like instead of giving an eighth place participation trophy, why don't you just focus on what did you learn? How did you grow? Did you do your best? These are these are questions that allow your kid to feel proud of themselves without making up a reason to feel proud of themselves and and what. I Also talked to him because when he first started he was, he was reluctant to tap out right and I go. It's fine to tap out as long as you learn something from that and then was he willing to pass out because he sounds like my kind of guy. But but the point is you, you can't lose in like you saw uh, Giannis's uh thing there's no losing in sports, right? You get better.

To me, it's a game in progress. whether it's School Entrepreneurship Sports Art One of the things I Think that I'm fascinated by is we treat it as an absolute when they're 7, 9, 12 when in reality a lot of like the end game plays out later. Yeah and so for me it's like are you moving the ball down the field? You know a lot of that stuff came natural to me. I remember getting crushed by my best friend Brandon Brandon you're gonna love this So I crushed Brandon every baseball card show we did like we did like 10 baseball card shows freshman year high school where like I'd make 700 bucks and you make 40.

and I'd make a thousand and make a hundred and this weird show at the Clinton I will never forget this the Clinton Holiday Inn off of Route 78 and somehow not only does he crush me but like a relative came early and he packed up early and went to Phillipsburg to another show to do buying because he had already smashed it and he like beat me. he sold more stuff than me and I remember like even at 14 being like this is the best like didn't need a single person of wisdom to say like you'll learn from this however I don't think I'm like a Cabbage Patch Kid and came up clearly the parenting I was getting along the way even by 14 didn't even need my mom or dad to reinforce that I was already there. and when I think back to where I am in this exact second of happiness and productivity. All of it.

much of it. An enormous amount of it. Is that? yeah? And I'm very concerned that that is not a popular framework right now in parenting. and I guess I'm curious.

How much or little do you touch on that overall theme in this book? Yeah. I I Think our job is to help them become what they're meant to be. Yes, right. It's not to make them what they want to be, to force them to like something, It's to find the thing.

It's not to give them a participation Trophy and something they're bad at, but it's to help them find the thing that they don't want to be bad at because they love it so much and they're totally committed to it. That your job is to help them discover that thing that lights them up to find their people. right? This is my tribe. This is the thing I love.

This is the thing and not demonize it and not judge it. It could be. How old are you? I'm 35. right? As a 47 year old watching how many parents demonized Our Youth Level Like don't get into rap, Don't get into, you know, punk rock? Don't get into video games? Don't all? I Mean do you understand that 47 How many parents were mortified that their kids wanted to cook? That was the help.

Yeah. Meanwhile, what happened on the back end of that was the explosion of the Food Network and famous chefs I You already touched on it Esports Makes me laugh every day of the week. All those parents that took the Tony Hawks because I always use Tony Hawk because he was the skateboarder of the generation before me. That happened more in the mid 80s and like skateboarding I Remember when I was in second third grade exploded and like that's not a profession Tony Hawk Video games and profession booger ninja like.

It's so clear that parents I love that you said that. I I Really hope we're getting closer to not the doctor, lawyer, engineer. go to college or not be Roger Federer or Shaquille O'Neal Because the Sports By the way, one of the things that concerns me is the sports. Parents are now making their kids pick one sport by third grade because they have a delusion that they're going to be a parents every one of you that are listening.

None of your kids are gonna be pro athletes. None of them. promise if you're listening right now. Zero.

And by the way, if you actually have that app and hit us up for better sports but like it's 99.9 And so back to your point. There's kits right now in fourth grade that their dad is forcing them to pick a sport even though they like playing football, basketball, and baseball because the dad's delusional and thinks that the kid picks one right now and puts all their efforts into that they'll be a professional baseball player. Meanwhile, they're gonna have to get Tommy John surgery by ninth grade or whatever. It's insane you, you gotta? You should cultivate a range of interests and expose them to a variety of things.

Take them all over the world that every possible thing have no judgment about. and by the way, when people hear us I apologize Ryan all over the world can be done virtually. Yes, a lot of people like all over the world I don't have that. You're right.

But with the way the Internet works now, take them all over the world. Get into Wikipedia Get into EBT Get into YouTube and show them the world and show them the videos. and when they find the thing that lights them up, your job is to encourage that facilitate it. give them the kinds of lessons that allow that to be their thing.

What is the pro? What is the Robert Green calls this their life's task, right? You have to. Your job is to help your kids find their life's task and that might be something that makes no sense to you. That might be something that's scary to you. that's weird to you, Might be something your parents the grandparents think is stupid, which is killing a lot of parents that are listening right now.

Literally, their mom and dad is still dictating things to them because they're in that framework. I See that the amount of DMs I get like Gary you know because what the things I talk about Gary I think I agree with you that my son should not go to college but like my dad is like a professor at Yale I'm like what does that have to do with anything? Well, we talked about comparing yourself to other parents. When I dropped out of college, my parents took it extremely hard because I was the first of any of their friends kids to do such a thing right? And the funny thing is the thing they were so alarmed about when I was a teenager that I was spending all this time in my room on the computer. That's what I do.

Now that was me finding my thing and if they had taken a little more time to understand it and connect with it, it wouldn't have been as scary for me to drop out of college because they would have understood it and they would have seen what I saw in it or what it did. while I'm on this subject matter, the biggest thing I get hit up by parents is like hey, my son's like you Let me give you the answer What my parents did exactly with my mom and dad did what Ryan said which is why I'm a happy person and successful. What? I do they said Okay Mr bad grades This is what they said to me at 14. now that you've proven that you're not going to have a life based on the ease of Academia they didn't say this articulately.

By the way, they said you will now work Yeah and a lot like cool. You want to be an entrepreneur, You want to stand. You will work and work and work and work. And so I think the mistake a lot of parents are making in my DMs right now is like oh my son's an entrepreneur but they're like paying for the kid to stay at home at 20 years old laying their bed make them like this is back to nudging in a direction to find.

Sometimes that comes also with tough love. It's not just like oh you love painting with spaghetti amazing no no there's also like hey if you're gonna paint with spaghetti you're gonna need to have figure out how to sell your you're gonna have some long hard days like you're gonna have to teach work ethic. One of my favorite stories in the book. Malcolm Gladwell's talking about.

You know you watch an athlete and they bounce around from Team to team to team and then finally it clicks and they're amazing and he's like these are multi-million dollar assets and the team can't figure out how to get them to be what they're capable of being and he's like. But they try everything. The performance coaches experts, they try different, nutrition, everything, and eventually in the right circumstances at the right moment when everything aligns, it's explosive and it says your kid is saying why can you not give your kid that same thing Understand that just because they're not thriving in this environment doesn't mean they're not capable of thriving. It means you have to find a new environment, new circumstance.

You also have to be patient and you have to believe in them and you have to root for them and eventually it will happen. But you by making them feel guilty, they don't like the job, they don't like the Judgment from the other parents brother. your parents knew you were talented already. They just didn't like the stigma of a College Dropout because that luckily some of this shit's changing.

Yeah, I Was just talking to a high school just now and like just even their questions are like 16 year olds just like girls and boys asking about investment. creativity like I was like this is nothing like there was not the whole world's changing. The problem is you got to find that balance I Talk about purple in a with a with the way that our political system is now with red and blue. Find your purple for your kid.

Who says hey Mom and Dad I'm gonna make it on my own. Make sure they have work ethic because you can't make it on your own without it. So like start making them uncomfortable or this that and the other thing but like and not have delusional conversations. Bill Belichick Ended up not being a good football player.

Yeah, he ended up being a lucky coach in the right circumstance with an all-time great quarterback. or or he'll prove over the next five years he is the greatest we'll see. Bill We'll see. He said something once where he looks for coaches and players that played D3 right because they played because they loved it.

They loved the mud of it. They love the pain of it. They loved. End of it.

That's what you. That's what you want. Back to the book. What else do people need to know about it? I Make a big distinction between having kids and being a parent.

A lot of people have kids, right? Having kids is something biological and something legal. You sign the adoption papers, but deciding to be a parent and to make it a central part of who you are and how you measure the success of your life right? Like at the end of your life. Are you going to care about how much money you made? Are you going to care about the awards you want? What your reputation? No shot. You're gonna look around you and go.

Why don't I See my kids very often? Why don't we have a good relationship? Why are we doing? Why are we doing Thanksgiving alone? Or why Is it a chore to get them to come home or to go to them right? You got to think about in the distant future. The way you're going to measure your life is how crowded your table is 100 and I've always you know I had a saying I used to say a lot I was like I'm playing to see how many people show up to my funeral and the first people that need to show up are my kids. You know what I mean and so like it's a it's a tremendous point and ideally there around you before you die right? Well of course to your point like I've got some close relatives who are nicer to their parents Tombstone than they were to them when they were around and I see it a lot. Russian culture had a lot of these negative relationships.

The Soviet Union wasn't the greatest box to play in, so I have a lot of empathy for my family history, but boy is it right in my face. Yeah. and and so if that's what's gonna matter in the future, think about what you're valuing today and is that in alignment, right? You think about the arguments you have with your kids about are they keeping their clothes clean? What is there like you're you're sweating things I mean nothing that are that are telegraphing to them what your priorities are when your ultimate priorities. Yeah, let's talk about telegraphing.

What about affirmation? Do you touch on the dangers of creating affirmation around silly things like looks or athletic ability or straight? A's yeah, Do you touch on it? The Stokes make this big distinction. Is it in your control or not in your control? And when you think about what you compliment your kids on what you encourage them for what you celebrate. is it stuff that's up to them or not up to them right? If you go, you're so handsome, you're complimenting something that's not really up to them. and if they don't feel handsome then they're not going to feel valuable.

But if you what about them getting believing that but then going through life and becoming vulnerable to what they consider themselves great for? So I think about the other side. which is if like you're getting reinforced that you're handsome or beautiful your whole life? Are you then prone in your late 30s, early 40s to start having a real issue as your body and your life changes? And are you the ones like that's a really tough thing to have your validation framed on because Father Time is undefeated? Yeah, no. If what's beautiful The Stokes would say is is your kid making beautiful choices? Who they are about what they value but who they have around them? Yeah. so so complimenting and encouraging them and noticing the things that are up to them that they're putting in the work on.

That's fantastic right? Are they getting better? Did they try their best? Did you see them really putting themselves out there that's different than internet? Did they win? Did they get the award? Whatever. I try to focus on things that aren't in my kids control and that's what I celebrate about them. But I also say to them, you know as Mr Rogers did I love you because you're you, right? You make the world better because you're you. Like who you inherently are is special and wonderful and that's that's what makes you crazy.

What about? on the flip side, Do you touch on in a world of all this awesomeness when they up? Yeah, Do you talk about Candor with kids or do you? Does the book touch on holding your children accountable in not creating a delusional framework that they're the best and they can do everything? Yeah. Look, we all make mistakes and I think that's something we need to do better as parents, right? Like when you lose your temper or when you're distracted or when you break your word, how quick are you to go? You know what? I screwed up. That's on me. That doesn't mean I suck, right? That means I was sucked for a hundredth of a second.

Yeah, or it's a micro stink instead of suck And then you're giving your kids permission to see themselves as distinct from the bad decision they made. The thing they got arrested for. The thing they failed math class for, you made a bad decision in that circumstance that's in the past. So are you going to make better decisions now? Are going to be closer to who I know you're capable of being? Are you gonna make amends with the people you hurt? Yes.

Are you gonna get back on track? Back in the groove of it because I know that you can and that's what I love about you. You touch on something I found fascinating when two parents who are listening right now we're not fully aligned and they play a ping-pong of pulling from too far of an opposite direction instead of one of them seeing it and coming to the middle. Yeah, I Think you know there's this uh thing where you've got to back your spouse, right? But what if your spouse is the one who's having the right day who's frustrated and I don't think you do your kids any favor by gaslighting them and going no. Mom's being totally reasonable here when you know you know, like you can pull your kid aside and go look I think she's frustrated in this instance or she's mad about that other thing which is why this is happening.

This is why this is such a big deal. Do you think parents have an opportunity to talk more grown up with kids? What's your hot take on that? I Do I do And that's what I do too I try to and it's a balance. but I try to apologize I try to explain what's going on I try to explain where my weaknesses are, where my flaws are because I want to show that they're They're going to see some of themselves in me. Of course they're also going to come to understand what it means to be an adult through me.

What about when your kid just has the DNA of like a bad uncle and it like had nothing to do with your accountability like because Uncle Johnny was and they took their DNA like what about really molding some of the I'll tell you where I get triggered even the energy I just had the last two seconds I just don't like being mean to people for no reason? sure and of course that comes from insecurity and you can talk it through. But what about like understanding that actions have ramifications and things of that nature? Yeah, life has consequences because when I asked you in earlier, you kind of went to like hey, which is right, hey look at yourself first before you tell your kids everything. What about if like I mean I'm just thinking about a lot of youngsters that I know right now given my children's age and just relatives and friends and like some people just come out of the womb different. Sure DNA is real.

Yes yeah I don't I don't I don't think biological I don't think biology is Destiny in this of course it's not that that there's anyone that's hopeless or helpless I Mean you just talked about the thing I Most believe in you could have had the toughest 34 years of your life had the outside world judge you for your race, gender, sexual preference. You could have a human being grown up at 11 years old do something you could have incredibly challenging life circumstances. lose parents. Both my parents lost a parent before they were 16.

Like life is complicated and yet to your point. at 34, you could just go therapy, listening to different stuff, reading different stuff, surrounding yourself with different people. People dig themselves out of these Depots all the time. So to your point, when you're zero years old, you definitely aren't destined to have an issue.

I'm asking for the parents that are listening right now. which I have a lot of this audience who are, uh, very risk adverse and they have an entrepreneurial 11 year old or both parents just happen to be the sweetest kind of simple and their kids are bullying the out of people because they just like what do you do when you're like, whoa, Neither one of us here like this kid. How? what are your thoughts on that? Okay, extroverted parents And then you've got an introverted kids, right? Yeah! I Love that shot. I I Love that too.

That's what makes life. Yes, like if everyone was just like everyone else and so you gotta. You gotta understand who they are and you gotta understand what makes them great and your job. I Heard this great distinction: Are you a carpenter or are you a gardener right? A Gardener prunes pulls weeds right, but they don't.

They can't build it into what they want it to be. So you got to find out who they are, what their Destiny is as that seed and then you've got to help it succeed. But also get rid of this. Get rid of the stuff that shouldn't be there too.

You know what I mean of course I do I mean look, people ask me all the time they're like do you want your kids to be entrepreneurs I'm like only if they want to be like I want them to be an entrepreneur because they didn't want it as a matter of fact I'm petrified they would ever consider it because I was one. Yeah I want them to like their thing the way I love my thing even if it was like I wouldn't want to be a Patriots fan but like like, but like, like. It's just so obvious to me that like forcing someone to be what you want them to be is like the worst for an employee or a friend. For a child, it's that's bad to do it for your siblings or your buddy.

Yeah, like forcing round holes into square pegs, especially out of your own insecurities is the big flaw of modern parenting and historical parenting. And it's it's not gonna work. They're going to resent you for it. It's gonna never work later.

Even if they said, even if they look, what's the best case scenario you created Tiger Woods Right and then he hates you for making him Tiger Woods right, it's not going to be worth. And by the way, for Tiger Woods is on such a like like do you know any doctors, lawyers and Engineers actively are that right now actively right this second that tens of thousands of people over the next five years will listen to this exact podcast and this exact moment they're 39 years old making a ton of money. It all looks good and they are pissed like all the way through because they never tried to be an Olympian or they didn't get to become a chef or they never tried to be an Archer Well and this is why I actually do think it's important that you're just proud of your kids for who they are, right? that that coming out of the womb, you're proud of them. You love them, You think they have worth so they don't think that they have to do X Y or Z to make you love them to make them proud of you.

that they don't have to follow in your footsteps because that's the only way to perceive your good graces or or get time with you by by. Yeah, yes, it's true, there's too much participation, trophies, maybe too much self-esteem nonsense. But if you let your if you support and love your kids unconditionally and let them know that they have worth, they'll follow their own. And by the way, self-esteem needs to be like really contextualized I Think what you and I are talking about is actual self-esteem be instead of manipulated self-esteem The only way you'll get self-esteem is if you know you're actually good at something yeah, like like so find like I really do think every do I think every person is born and can be phenomenal at something I'm not sure but boy do I believe out of the 8 billion people on Earth Walking around, the far majority never found the thing that they were most capable of meaning like like, you know what I mean like I Don't think everyone could be an all-world Hall of Fame X but I'm sure right now someone's an accountant who could have been one of the really significantly top five percent.

Uh, auto mechanics Like we're just not explore it. you know you talk about it. and I talk about a ton of taste things we're creating more Frameworks to letting kids taste things. And the funniest part is if you just watch your kid, you don't even have to do this work everyone.

Ironically, your kids will show you somewhere between eight and fifteen. they're gonna start gravitating towards interests. They're showing you in their face that they think carpentry is amazing or they want to be a lawyer Like all you have to do is be open to what they're telling you. And by the way, you said something powerful when you were just talking around I was like, right? Every parent loves your kid to death at six months they haven't done yet except poop right? like.

But you love them. Somewhere along the way you start creating expectations and it's conditional of course. and all based on your own insecurities Worrying about what your neighbors think if your kids go into Ivy League school or how many goals they scored in Lacrosse, you? no, and they're gonna. it's not going to work.

ever, it's not gonna work. And look, they might become a powerful lawyer. Great whatever. But if if it doesn't mean something to them, it will feel empty and meaningless and they'll find some way as Tiger Woods ultimately did to act out to undermine it because they weren't doing it for them.

Boy do I believe. Let's wrap us up. What else? Uh, what else should we touch on the last couple minutes here? Anything we didn't touch on naturally in our flow I Have a good question Man, we always just talk. You know, like I always feel s love this because it's always so different because I really enjoy talking to you because I do think we share a lot of views and we have different tweaks and turns on it.

But like the you know what I love about you and what I loved about this conversation I hope everybody understood This was a massive conversation about love. such good intent. this is so powerful the the last thing you know you talk about, you're gonna die. Yes, you need to realize the shortness of light that doesn't just apply to you.

that applies to the people you love. Also right? No one's here forever. We don't know how long we have with them they have with us. The other thing about kids is growing up is a process of diary.

You'll never be a two-year-old again. A three right? cool and so you've gotta it. Can You can be so busy as a parent, you're rushing through things like bedtime, you're like it's got to take first window to this window and you're rushing to what? Answer: email to catch. you know to catch something Ted lasso yeah to stream which by the way I know you need parents like we all need escapism.

but to your point I'm already in it like you're not. There's no time machines. Yeah for everybody's got a 15 year old right now. Just think for one second, how much should you pay for them to be six again? For a lot of people they might say nah I'm happy but like for a lot of us, it's like those are special times I Can tell you right now all you all you girl dads like starts happening at 12, 13, 14, 15, 16 Friends become their world, They start becoming a woman and Mom become like all of a sudden that little six-year-old that wanted to cuddle with you all the time like you won't see them for a decade.

according to parents that are ahead of you. that blows you're rushing through the thing you're going to miss more than anything 100 100 percent I Hope this brought some value to everybody. Please go out. Is the book out? Yeah.

Come down tomorrow. Book is out by the time you're listening to this you know how to find them. it's all on Amazon just search or or the other platforms. the daily Dad Ryan Holiday Always a pleasure.

Thanks Love you bro! Thank you.