The Best YouTubers in the world. Starting with Mr Beast Down Spend more time and more money on their thumbnail than you could ever imagine. So number One for everybody who's going to do video and again, that's a whole another conversation because for some people it should be written word. Some people should be doing audio.

Some people should be doing video. I Think the thumbnail on video is incredibly important I Think the first 3 seconds Do we need the hook from the thumbnail to be delivered on in the first 2 or 3 or 4 seconds? We really believe we do. If my hook says 30 to 40 year olds, you should be thinking about LinkedIn and if my opening line is like before we get into that in two seconds, you may lose that audience. One thing that continues to work for me is taking headlines that are happening in pop culture business and doing a green screen and talking over it.

That model continues to work better than if I just looked in camera right now and talked about it. Attention is the number one asset. So the first thing I want to ask you is what would you do today? You know, in today's world you know inflation and everything that's going on in the world. it's really crazy right now.

Yes, if you were to build a business today, what would you do differently I Don't know if I would do anything differently. And more importantly, back to Bringing As much value to the audience as possible I Think the thing I think most about is Am I putting myself in a position to succeed and will this work. and I think if you ask those questions, one of the biggest things that everyone who's listening needs to think about is do I like this Am I good at it like why am I I doing this Am I doing you know real estate because my other friends say you can make money in real estate Am I doing cannabis or crypto or something else CU it seems like it's hot Am I doing um, social media influencer because that seems easy to me. The reason I don't think about things differently.

There's a million things I can do differently on everything I do V friends Vayner X Wine Library Gary Vbr the books but I don't think about it from the small little things I think about it from the big things and I think most people get the big thing wrong. They don't put themselves in a Pos position to succeed. They either are delusional and think they're better at something than they are. yeah, which I understand like we all want to hope and dream and it's okay to go for it.

But I do think that too many people struggle with self-awareness and I do think that building something meaningful meaning living life on your own two feet and not working for someone which means it's a constant pressure. It's all on you I do think it requires you enjoying it? Yes, if you're going to do it long term because in the hard days the fact that you wake up and still want to do it CU you like it helps a lot and when you're just doing it for the money, you're going to give up more often than not and so that's how I think about it. Yeah, totally agree with you. how how did you figure out out for example your why that you know besides the whole story the Jets the family but how did you figure out what your why was so that it wasn't just for money it was so early for me.

That's why it's so hard for you know and you know this I Know we've been on this journey and you know a lot of my stuff. It's hard for me to talk about find I Don't talk about finding why a lot. no no you don't I really don't Yeah I really don't It's because I don't think I have a great point of view on it because for me it was so natural you know it was so early I mean I genuinely don't remember a time where I didn't want to be a businessman you know and so for me it it came very early. But I do talk about tasting different things I Do talk a lot about taking advantage of your 20s and 30s you know I do talk about even in your 40s, 50s, 60s, 70s understanding it's not quote unquote over that.

there is opportunities. But I I think one thing that I think you have a this is a strength of yours if I could watch it from afar I think people say no too much and don't say maybe enough Yeah and I think I I Been becoming more and more passionate about the concept of maybe you know I'm in maybe all the time most things become no. but many things do become yes. and I do think that that's something that people need to think about.

Yes, you know, like uh Ai No that's going to be bad. It's going to take jobs without ever spending 10 hours of research. Uh, the blockchain? No, especially now. Oh, Nfts were B no no do you actually understand or or Tik Tock Well I missed it.

It's too late. Well actually it's not the way Tik Tok's built is. it's based on the individual post. And starting tomorrow is just as viable as starting two years ago.

And so I I think that people say no and so I think for the people listening trying to find their why if it didn't come natural to you, there's people that wake up and at 6 years old they want to be a stay-at-home mother or father. At 6 years old, they want to be a teacher. At 6 years old, they want to be a firefighter. at 6 years old, they want to be a doctor.

at 6 years old? They want to be an entrepreneur. But for a lot of people, it's not that easy. It doesn't come that natural. and I Do think that people need to keep pushing themselves? Take a pottery class.

you know, like you know, go, uh, you know, go to a concert of a different style of music. People don't make themselves uncomfortable or they're not curious enough or they're not willing to. You know, try out of fear. and I think about that a lot.

Yeah, yeah, totally. Now when it comes to to social media, you just mentioned uh Tik Tok for you today. what would be the top three platforms to be on because there are so many and what would you do on each of them? if if you were starting now, what would would you do on Tik Tok YouTube Instagram or Facebook Yeah. so I think again back to the earlier point of self-awareness If you're selling B Be all of a sudden LinkedIn is number one, right? If you're selling if you're a SAS If you started a SAS business, If you're listening right now and you want to or you you sell to lawyers you have a service that sells to lawyers, then LinkedIn is going to be number one globally for sure.

with YouTube shorts probably being number two because YouTube is a search engine. Yes, a lot of people search there, so that would also be good if you were into SAS and then probably in that scenario I would then say if you're selling, you know a B2B service after those two, probably Facebook grounded in a Facebook group with then Twitter X being probably fourth if you're selling SAS Instagram's probably a distant fifth Snapchat Pinterest they super far away In that scenario, if you're selling T-shirts to 15 to 25 year olds all of a sudden, Tik Tok becomes number one. Instagram probably becomes number two in that's SC area and YouTube shorts is number three, right? So I think for a lot of people, that's that reality for broader markets. I Think that if you're really trying to sell something like to the broad consumer, call it for everybody who's 25 to 55.

Well now you start getting into Facebook still being an incredibly powerful platform for selling Mhm. Um, I Do think that organic Tik Tok for Branding is exciting Instagram again becomes a stronger selling platform, but both of those scenarios require ads more than organic reach. um, whereas Tik Tok you can win on organic reach and kind of capture lightning in a bottle so the you know I Hope everybody appreciates the answer it it it is contextual, but I think as far as the answer to what you would would do inside of it obviously there's a lot of Science and Math of what time do you post, how long is the copy I Think a couple things to look out for. Number one, the best YouTubers in the world starting with Mr Beast Down Spend more time and more money on their thumbnail than you could ever imagine.

So number one for everybody who's going to do video and again, that's a whole another conversation because for some people it should be written word so some people should be doing audio. Some people should be doing video. but I think uh I think the thumbnail on video is incredibly important I think the first 3 seconds thing that Dustin and I were talking about on our trip this week is do we need the hook from the from the thumbnail to be delivered on in the first two or three or four seconds And and we we really believe we do. We believe that if if my hook says you know 30 to 40 year olds, you should be thinking about LinkedIn and if my opening line is like before we get into that I you know, like you might in two seconds, you may lose that audience.

And so I think a lot of science around the art I think a couple of other things, there's a lot of ways to do it. Let me encourage some people. One thing that I've been noticing is on: Instagram you could just take a photo of something right? you were here with your friend this weekend in. New York You could take a photo of like a nice picture that caught your eye in New York take a photo but if you then wrote three paragraphs, really great ones because you're a great writer about the concept of enjoying the weekends to reset of the concept of busyness.

and Chaos in Controlled Chaos is an effective way to be an entrepreneur. You could write the you know curiosity I've been to New York seven times, but I've never gone down this street right like you could take a photo of anything. a banana, a car, a tree, a bird, your backyard. it.

You really could take a photo of almost anything and and then write three or four paragraphs that are very thoughtful about a point you're trying to make. Now all of a sudden you don't need a video and editing team. You could do it all by yourself and for a lot of people listening. they're not great on camera, they're not great with their words, but they're incredible writers and so it's around self-awareness of the me, the the style, the content and then there's strategy around the distribution depending on your business and so that's one main to keep getting very nerdy and deep on your question.

The other thing to always look for is underpriced attention. The thing that I know you know about me over these last seven eight years is that I have a very strong skill set in understanding where there's more organic, reach against consumption and and when to do it hard than most people. And that's been a big part of My Success you were there when I was yelling about musically and Tik Tok when that when that seemed crazy to almost everyone, you, you weren't there but people that have been following me all the way back to 2005. 6 and seven there was an incredible amount of content and passion I had around YouTube and Twitter and Facebook I mean I wrote Crush in 2008 came out in 09 but I wrote it in 2008.

That's 15 years ago. long time. So I I think that I constantly look for the underpriced attention. It's always most exciting when it comes up in a new platform.

but new platforms only come around every 3, Four, seven, Nine years. Yeah, then when it's not a platform, it goes into the things we just talked about, the strategy within the platforms I talked about recently. It's already lost momentum in a month, but a month ago I was incredibly excited about posting a meme and then a video on Instagram a two poost. Carousel I saw that M and you know I I I see incredible uh, opportunity that again almost talking to Dustin I'm almost having my own meeting right now.

One thing that continues to work for me is taking headlines that are happening in pop culture business and doing a green screen and talking over it. That model continues to work better than if I just looked in camera right now and talked and even when the the green screen the the Green Screen Video is not great quality. like it doesn't look good but it it works Correct to your point. My last one which did really well I was in the car and the light was hitting a different way and it wasn't like my yeah I was like distorted.

that's right. But I think I think that that's um I think a great strength of mind that I would encourage people to consider is constantly trying new formats. you know? uh I'll use you as an example. We've talked in the past whether on DM or Twitter or in a V friend's Discord or like this about like M I I'd like to get more traction I want more views on my videos and something that I don't think I've given good advice on in the past to you or the hundreds of thousands of people that have asked me is look if you have the same exact format format not you're talking about different things but it's camera to face and you post it as an Instagram real and you're doing that 50 100 times and you're not getting really the results you want.

After a 100 times you've got to change it. You've got to change your format. Maybe you bring on a guest, Maybe you go to green screen. Maybe you go to written word and picture I Think you know I Always think about that concept of like you know the definition of insanity is like doing the same thing over and over and and thinking you'll have a different outcome.

So I do think I want to give permission to a lot of people out there like if you've done a 100 I think that's the right thing. If you've done a hundred of the same format per se and you're really, really getting nowhere and you're now 6 months in you, you know you should challenge yourself to try different formats. Yeah, not talk about something different, just talk about the same thing in a different in a different you know, like look I believe in 40 to 50 core things and then I layer what's happening in the world at the time. yeah and new in different formats and platforms.

and I think um, there's something there there MH that's that's good advice. I'm going to try that because I love doing reals like I love doing the video and some work some don't and then something that works on Instagram then I put it on Tik Tok it doesn't work over there. Yeah Tik Tok's a whole different animal. Hard it.

Yeah, it's hard. It is hard. but I Think you know I remind people like yourself myself I Say this to myself all the time. If you're looking for something special to happen, it's supposed to be hard.

Yeah, you know? Yeah like I I I Hear, you know? right? like even right, yeah it's supposed to be hard. Yeah like I was in this uh I was where was I oh I was Friday night I was in um in a airport lounge in Dallas and this gentleman like a 60y old guy. you know he's a real yappy guy I was trying to get a little work done before my like to LA but he wanted to talk and I'm about that life. He had no clue who I was or anything like that nature.

we were just talking and he um he got into something and he was like it's it really seemed to me that this was a gentleman and I confirmed some of this through the conversation. You know really really came from rural America really like came from nothing, nothing and made a life of himself and you know it was really nice and his son was getting married in Tennessee in a couple weeks. Really enjoyed the conversation but he kind of talked about you know, uh, how hard he worked and then he was talking about what was hard for him now and I kind of had this fun moment where I was like Hey brother like youve all people know, like you didn't get to this point by accident. you don't have to do the next thing but it's not going to happen without hard work and so I think you know yeah I think people ask to be known to get compensated for being themselves to sell books to speak to sell things It should be hard because 99% of the world works for someone else.

Yep, you've said it. Yep, um so you answered the next question I had. So I'm going to move on to the next one which is I wanted to ask about be friends of course um I see you're doing so much like it's hard for me to keep up like I miss like the plushies like I miss the H thing. Well the Masters of the Universe yes um I call it He-Man too by the way.

yeah everyone does called he- but yeah everyone called it He-Man Master Universe very good. um so I asked you know I asked in the beer disc oops to my fellow specs and and they asked me hey can you ask G what does he have in store for the future like after Vcon 24 what's going to happen or what do you have planned for the Nfts? Yes, um especially Series One holders? Yeah so you know for me, the entire Vriends game launched. You know game meaning uh, operations and building out of V friends is predicated on people falling in love with the characters. There is nothing else y you know like if back to He-Man Yeah right.

that Skeletor thing that we did wouldn't have been a big to-do if the world didn't love Skeletor of course so you know I think I'm empathetic When spec holders or series 1 holders or any holders ask what's going on with the Nft I think what I'm doing is creating the Nft: The fact that I can speak to multiple people who in the last two weeks watched Fanatics live where we open up trading cards yeah for hours at a time of entertainment and education they they they discover who genuine giraffe ish and the fact that there are multiple people who have gone from not even knowing what V friends or I was yeah. discovering Us in the Fanatics app in Discovery watching me rips and con man Connor uh you know, hang out, get interested and excited by the community, get educated, buy a pack for the next show, get the pack start to get on Twitter and meet all of you. go and buy a series 2 vriend and then go and buy a series 1 V friend nft all in two weeks and there's two or three examples already. Yeah, I was going to ask.

have you tracked some of oh yeah, we track all of that and so the Skeletor thing getting into the Masters. So look I I Think What's really fun about Nfts as a collectible is you can do things forever MH You see what wallets have it, things of that nature to your point. October has been a very big month. We're really trying to lean into the character development of the Halloween characters.

We think Halloween is a very big platform for Vriends, but I think between the Skeletor the plushies, the mini and vending machines, the coffee collaboration with Gregor's the Fanatics live trading cards. Uh, obviously the announcement of Vcon 2024 in Los Angeles you know I think Beyond 2024 is what 2023 has been about between burn Island background scenes we're working during this: Rec Correction down: Market of the NF thing that's beyond your control of course and we anticipated it. You know, as you know, I made 30 40 different videos during and interviews during August 2020 the height. Yeah saying 95 97 99 of this is going to zero.

Um, because because that's how that these kind of things go. You know, Nfts are like trading cards. They're like art. They're like sneakers.

They're like watches. They're going to be collectible. 99% of watches are not collectible. 99% of sneakers are not collectible.

99% of trading cards are not Michael Jordan's rookie card 99 of intellectual properties are not He-Man Masters Universe or Disney or or Pokemon so you know for your friends in those communities um and for everybody broader and for people who are listening that are not into be friends but are following other projects you know I think the requirement of those projects. so I'll give you some Alpha In a little more detail that people in the Discord have heard in the past, we are announcing the kids book pretty soon here and it will be in kids hands in 2024. You know God forbid my first kids book Just so everybody knows. when I wrote crush it, nobody knew who I was.

Yeah, you know what I mean and that book went. And so if we're lucky enough to have this book go and so we're working very heavily on that. We're working very heavily on getting the animation infrastructure and then as far as how I think about specs Collectibles The way Collectibles actually work is if you are fortunate enough to get people to care about the characters. Overall: Spider-Man number one's first appearance or Spider-Man's Amazing Stories You know if Spider-Man's first appearance or Wolverine's first appearance is more valuable than his second or in trading cards, there are Kobe Bryant and LeBron James rookie cards that are more rare than the standard one, right? and they are more sought after.

You know if I'm right, and if we're capable as a digital collectible, the specs have a disproportionate world and you could see that happening with what's happening with trading cards. If you go and look at trading cards right now. M on eBay Yes, the to 25 epic of any character if we were to go right now, is dramatically more valuable is it than the core? What has not happened yet is digital Collectibles are so early that the people are still trying to figure out and so it takes time. but you know to answer your question.

very detailed and a little bit more. um, long-winded For example, right here we're looking now. everybody who's listening the Whimsical wolf is $31 as a rare to 500 if we were to find a yellow one which is the Bas in here right if and I don't know if we'll find one actually. Here we go real quick because I just want you to see yes, the the regular wolf is1 1999 right? there's a, there's a, there's a there's a gap yes between the trading card people understand that in Vriends Nft Land Series 1 not all the way just yet.

But then there's also the part of you know what utilities and what things happen and so I think yeah, like what's like one side is a collectible and then from your end will you continue to let? Of course of course. but but as you know and everybody knows, there's also Clarity that we're looking for from legislation that we have to wait for and so you know it's Listen, this is a A No question. a tricky time for operators and collectors. Don't forget I I'm a major collector on the other side of of world.

Look at that wall. yeah and and just of Nfts creature world, World of Women Yuga stuff so you know we're all kind of navigating it. but look I think the best thing I can say is I hope that the last six weeks and I've definitely gotten a lot of people reaching out based on this has shown people it's not like we're looking to make pretend this chapter never existed. You know I think if you you know what I mean like I'm very committed to this.

We're going to do this and we're going to do it for the rest of our lives. and I'm I'm enjoying it. you know it's it's not fun to have like tension and like concern and I see everything I know I know you, You know you know this I see everything I'm working. yes you know he uh He-Man took 19 months.

it really mattered. There's a lot of people in Masters of the Universe Reddit communities and community and and discords that are like wait a minute, be friends. This cool, skilled skeleton is selling more as an Nft because so like we're working on it I know you got a lot more and we're going to run out of time so go ahead. Yes, of course.

Um so I wanted to ask you now about your next book in our last interview a year ago. you told me the title of the book and now it changed. Yeah, exactly what can you share? Yeah, so what I told you at the time was it was going to be jab jab jab left hook because I knew that I was going to write a very similar book to that 10 years ago. which is what I am writing with day trading attention.

The difference is when I started writing the book versus when I had it figured out a year ago when we spoke I realized this is a much more complex book than Jab Jab Jab right hook Jab Jabry Hook was very simple to understand give give give then ask in your content. Here's some examples of content: dat trading attention is very detailed to what you and I talked about 20 minutes ago. Okay, it is probably my most academic book. Okay, you know there's even a part of me that worries that it could be a hair boring I'm not kidding I'm being dead serious.

It's so detailed in the magic of what I do and what Vayner media does. but I'm proud of that. I think I think we will jab jab jab right hook. Besides crushit is the book.

I get most talked to about how it changed someone's life. especially now in marketing. So many of the people that are in companies that we work with when the meetings over on Zoom they're like hey, Gary can I just say something I'm only in marketing because I read Jab Jab Jab right hook in high school or college and it's very flattering. Day trading attention has a chance to be a Manifesto of the next five years of what to do on social media as a reference point.

people go back to it. Of course things will change and I'm and I speak to that in the book a lot. but it's a very beefy book and I'm really proud of it. When when is it coming out? I'd like to have it come out next summer.

next summer we're we're just wrapping up the and it's ironic we just touched on both. Um, uh, I The kids book and day trading attention have the potential come out close to each other and obviously I want to give them a little bit of breathing room from a promotional standpoint so we're just working on that. Awesome. Excited about both! Thank you Now Ai I know you've been talking about it as well I want to know how you're using it, which tools you're using it, how you recommend for entrepreneurs, we're using Ai and some re speecher and some audio translating my voice into other languages I'll still Spanish and and and and fary and German and French like I think every one of your favorite creators will be speaking every language perfectly synced lips, no subtitles in native tongue within the next 24 to 36 months at scale so that's going to be enormous.

Mid: Journey for creative thinking you know, just typing in different visuals as I visualize things, especially for internal presentations and decks. um chat GB PT for thinking or answering questions like just I I like using it for Trends you know uh. For example, I'll ask like hey, uh, Chad Gbt why are people wearing corduroy hats right now in culture like those kind of things? So you know those kind of those three really stand out. Um, you know I've unfortunately have been so busy with vriends this summer prepping this fall and winter and now I'm even busier vriends for 2024 that I'll be transparent I feel a little anxiety? Not really, but I am disappointed that I haven't been able to go deeper in more tools cuz there's just so many hours in the day.

Yeah, but you know it's uh, it's very clear what this AI journey is going to be. It's an incredible infrastructure to our society. Um, and it will change a lot of things. Yes, Are you worried about because you've said it too? and I'm worried myself.

Um, the Deep fake after aspect of it. What are your thoughts on that? It's why I'm a don't worry Dustin I know we're in. New York City Everybody there's always sounds like this in the background we have no idea is um I am worried about it and I think it's because people are headline readers. So I'm worried because people believe everything.

I'm going to say something pretty wild. There's a part of me that is curious about what it looks like when people believe nothing. Mhm. So right now we believe everything and we're headline readers.

and I think it's causing damage. What happens in 10 years when we don't believe in anything? We don't believe what you said or what I said on video because we're not sure if somebody else made it. And here's the full circle. We have to go to the blockchain to see if you and I post it I believe every piece of content I post in the future at some point will be posted first on the blockchain to prove Providence and then we'll go on the internet.

and so if you see me say something that really upsets you, you're like this is not the Gary I know you're going to be able to go and look and be like oh thank God he didn't say that somebody made him say that in deep fake video. Wow. I Think that because remember blockchains are not owned by Iran or America or Russia or China This is the power of the blockchain And so the blockchain has an incred incredible seat at the table for society in the next 100 years and as we become more digital and it is the only true source of truth that can't be manipulated, you start thinking about a very interesting thing. You know.

one of the great things. Back to Collectibles Empathy Elephant Series 1 spec Diamond will never have a counterfeit. There's unlimited counterfeit art, sneakers, watches, and trading cards or in New York alone. Oh my my.

God on the streets. You know what I mean. But real counterfeit. Forget about the streets where it's just obvious.

There have been people who've really spent $ 500,000 $300,000 for a P Fake Pokemon and Michael Jordan rookie card. So I think you know I think we're so early on this. but I'm very excited about what the blockchain does. But yeah, Deep fake is going to be challenging.

like it's going to be tough in a year when or two when people up with audiences like myself will have to be on a daily or weekly basis going on their social media saying that is not a video I made. That is not true I did not say that word or I did not. You know discriminate against those people or I did not make that claim about business and it happened already during Nft summer. Yeah, people were using my images all over social media claiming that I was bought this.

You know you, you were close to it. They would air drop me the token I've seen that. Yeah and then they would be like Gary B buys 10 of So I mean you know people are always doing stuff unfortunately. Remember this everyone.

if you're if you're worried, it's always cops and robbers. It's always cat and mouse. Something gets invented. The bad guys try to do something.

the good guys try to capture them. The good guys try to do something. Bad guys try to get around it. It's just one big circle.

so deep Fake will be used for bad. but we've created as humans, the blockchain that can be used for good. Absolutely. I'm excited about it.

Yeah, yeah. so I'm worried, but optimistic. That's that's one of your main qualities. I think so I think I'm a practical Optimist I'm not delusional.

No. I'm not an outer space I'm an operator I'm I'm a I'm a thinker. But I I do believe in us more than most people. Yeah, I really do.

That's a good thing. Um, and I wanted to ask about your time management because I think it's incredible. Uh, how does Gary decide? We talked about this earlier saying no and maybe and all of this. What? What gets a yes from Gary Also, you know because I'm here right now.

Did I get this? Yes? What is your criteria for that? A lot of it's intuition mhm and a lot of it's the complete opposite. Like requirement I think I I run on requirement and intuition. You know I have a lot of responsibilities. So we're now because I was a little bit late this morning.

we're a couple minutes over. there's a three. There's a call going on right now with be friends and a collaborator. That's very important.

Yes, I'm 3 minutes late. but I felt that because I was a little bit late this morning and you came all the way out here that I didn't want to cut our time short. These arec that are happening every second, especially for someone as busy as I am. I have three full-time admins I have two chief of staffs I you know I think what I do well is I don't let meetings run long I Talk about that a lot I know 1 hour meetings could be 30.

30 minute meetings could be 15 I think I put my money where my mouth is. Most people don't hire three admins and so they get the results of two admins or one admin. The biggest mistake I think a lot of people make and don't forget I did my own admin work for 10 years course. excuse me 200 1998 I I did my own admin for 13 years.

so I understand what it's like when people hear me, they're like I can't afford I'm like I know I did that for 13 years but there was a point where I realized wait a minute it's not good for me to be doing this. This is a lot of time I'm putting into this I'm getting busier and so I think a lot of entrepreneurs or Founders don't get admins fast enough and then they don't trust admins. That's a B one you know. And so I think they'd rather buy nice clothes or take a trip or buy a nicer car or a better laptop.

And they're not investing in themselves and their time is very important. It's their biggest value I can make more money, but I can't make more time and I think about that a lot. Yeah, that's well. Gary thank you so much.

Uh, it's been I had like a million more question. Oh by the way to answer your question, why you? Because I like you? Oh, because we have a real relationship. You know we've seen each other a lot. We've interacted a lot.

That's the beauty of the internet. We've seen each other a lot in the scheme of things, but none of the the probably the second time on we wouldn't have seen each other if we didn't continue the conversation on. Twitter Yes, right? Yes! So I think social media creates the gateway to real relationships I agree and I like that and I like people and I like you And uh, that's why we're here. Thank you I love you I love you back.