Do you know how many people will tell you they don't like oysters but have never had one? A lot of people. I Really do think exploring and curiosity is a topic that we need to talk more about. Maybe you've been looking for a sign because you're a guidance counselor, but you've always wanted to do acting in theater and like maybe you should just go across the street and go to the local theater or whatever. It is right? Like people are incredibly limited and I really do think that curiosity is the underrated human trait right now.

Attention is the number one asset. vayer Nation Uh, it is Very. Actually, it's not that rare, but you know it's not. Every day we get to have a legend in the building with us on the podcast and they'll be coming after this podcast.

Yeah, so you looking around they're coming an hour after, but this is the precursor. Uh William H Macy Obviously I know a lot of you are incredibly familiar with his work and just genuinely incredibly respected for his craft. What's fun about this is he walks into the office for this podcast with with his entrepreneurial hat on and we're going to dig in here and I think why I was excited to do this is not only to to get a brief moment with somebody that I respect a lot and get to say thank you for the work. B I Know that the audience is going to love this because I know how loved he is.

but see I think it's important to reinforce something I'm passionate about which is just having a multi-dimensional life, especially in today's world. So many of us, you and I are part of a generation where like you know, pre you know, we grew up without the internet. Uh, and so the internet has created a world where just people's ability to do multiple things. a renaissance man um is so real and I think it's kind of powerful weal.

I talk a lot about it with maybe people on podcast or on my content that maybe aren't as well known, but I think it's actually incredibly powerful to know that people that have even gotten to the highest levels of their craft in a public environment also have other aspects other interests and we're luckily we're all living longer. Yeah, I think about that a lot. you know, like the you know the kids that are 15 17 now they're going to live to 110 20 like it's crazy what's going on with modern medicine and how we're getting educated with food supply and things of that nature and true. So I just think this will be a fun uh episode and William thank you for being on.

Well, thank you so much and um, yeah, you're right. this is a brand new thing for me. Uh, my wife says that it's important that we frighten ourselves all the time. do something you're not used to.

So I've jumped off the deep end here and uh I joined Woody Creek Distillers because Mark Clner and uh, they live next door to me. Oh no kidding. Pat and Mary and Mark and me right next door to each other. Love that.

Where in Woody Creek I live in Woody Creek and so how long had you been there or when did you guys meet into who's been there? How long? How break that down for me? Well so uh, we we really started the The Distillery in Earnest in 2010. As we were researching, my partner and I were really into drinking Chopan B Potato B M and we were going to make an American Chopan plus love it in that little Valley and you know, just five miles from Aspen used to crank out more potatoes than the entire anybody I'm aware back turn of the century, turn of the last century by the way. apologize for interrupting you that analogy. There is a big driver of me I Think history has a lot of innovation in it and when you hear that hey, did you know that this little Valley pumped out more potatoes than so a lot of how I innovate is based on history.

So for a lot of you that have passions and things you know especially now with AI which is like 10 times more powerful than search asking questions to give permission notice. How that was said, this Valley pumped out more potatoes than I Now that's giving permission to like why it could make great potato vodka and I think there's a billion things like that out there. So toay curious and look for those historical permission points but keep going. Yeah so uh from 2010 to 2012 before we got our licenses and started making moves, we were growing different varietal of potatoes looking for land and uh Mr Macy here living next door to me happened to have a couple nice pastures that were nice and flat and well irrigated and uh knew each other a little bit as neighbors but then uh so we he knocked well he knocked on your door and said I want to your land you want to be the spokesperson and I said sure you be part of this and so this started as early as 2012 or so was a little bit later we started producing alcohol in 2012.

Found out very quickly when you're making a potato vodka you want to use a fresh potato right out of the ground. So we're ourselves uh mashing 5 10 tons a day, rinse, repeat and uh, once from maybe September through November we make our vodka, then we're done and we're like okay now what we do, let's make whiskey. So the other nine months we we started cranking whiskey. uh the Vodka 2015 double gold San Francisco Spirits comp best overall Spirit following year the the Ry got the double gold and uh so pretty much I think we know what we're doing and Bill's Bill's been there from the get-go This is not a celebrity brand in any way.

he's a passionate partner. Bill is that because he doesn't think you're a celebrity or I'm not sure yeah was I was just trying to follow the the Vi there I do have to sweep things like actually we'll get back. let's we'll bounce back to the alcohol in a minute. Obviously so many of you know I I Grew up in this industry and so um, it's been really cool to see Brown Goods make a comeback I Got involved in my dad's liquor store when I was 14 stock in shelves and I caught the tail end of the Brown Goods era.

I'm just going to break this down for everyone who's listening: I know how cool and trendy you know, whiskies and and all and Rise are Now they were the dominant force in the the Mad Men era. the 50s, 60s, '70s everybody drank it and then I my ironically my entire uh, spirits and wine and beer career in retail was the one window when they were super down. right when I was 14 people would come in and buy door. Scotch we would sell hundreds of cases of Door Scotch and Fr Angelica and baile it was Lor Lor Lor and then a I took my dad's business to a wine Direction but B it became more about vodka.

absolute vodka. and then Grey Goose blew the lid off the door and then all the others and then Tios had its run. But and then I Kind of started this marketing company in in 09 but full-time 2011 and by like 2013 145 the Papies and all this movement started happening. so it's really interesting to see the brown Goods game so we'll go back to that ad minute.

but Bill real quick just to while we've got you on the podcast. Like what? what is when people ask you about your career in acting, if if we're accepting that you are a celebrity. Um, there's a lot of people that listen to this podcast who and you know this with the new world of social media, people are able to get exposure out of at home with one video which is obviously very different than the industry you grew up in where people had to do a lot of things often before they even got to La often before they even got the Serendipity of Discovery Thinking about the incredible craft that Woody Creek brings to its category. What? What is the when you think about the craft of acting or creating or performing? What's your observation of the new world that we now live in where everyone has a platform, everyone has the opportunity and and just to give you into what I do for a living? What's changed with social media in the last 15 years has even more interesting the last 2 three years.

What's happened is the way Social worked from 2010 to 2020 was or 2005 to 2020 was you had to make content and people had to follow you almost like a newsletter for like an email. They would follow you and then a percentage of them would see every time you would post like an email, right? Not everybody would open it. Today's social media we now live in the algorithms. It explodes.

Correct, you know I grinded for 15 I did a wine show M four bottles just like what we're set up right now. four bottles of wine in front of a camera for 15 to 20 minutes a day from 2006 to 2011 5 days a week for five straight years to get a somewhat base that I then built on. sure today. Literally Today as we sit here, somebody will make their first ever video on Tik Tok and it will get 3 million views and they will be Off to the Races Now that's a needle in a Hy stack.

but it happens. those needles are happening every day. I'm I'm think about all this stuff. Well, I'm aware that social media is important and it's how we're going to sell more of the Woody Creek products.

But uh, it's interesting. True the uh you ask about the craft of acting. uh really? What I do for a moment yes is seconds you know I have one moment and when I finish that, you do the next moment when you finish enough moment you've done Hamlet But it's the micro and what I love about Woody Creek Distillers is that? Yeah, we were into. we're into social media but um what it really comes down to is a process of distilling these things uh as best as can be done.

And one of the things I love about it is the process hasn't changed and it it's the same old thing. it's the same old thing. It's just RIT large with science. you should see our Distillery it's stunning.

Oh, it's it's but it's the same thing. You go back to the basic, the uh, the fals. Yes, it's the fundamentals. Are you sad that with science? I'm very sad about what I'm about to say and I'm really not sad.

It's a silly ideology, but I think it's with the advancements in science in both spirits and wine, it's getting harder to it up. Yeah I liked that PE Humans used to make tons of mist. I mean there used to be very bad wine even when I was a kid getting in the game. you had bad years because we didn't know the weather well enough and you just might wake up and it haes and you're crushed whereas now like the even even predicting the weather is so Advanced by comparison of even 30 years ago.

Yeah, even though the weather man still the best gig, you're always wrong and everyone's like Yay still possible to make some Monumental mistakes. It is. but it is right. It's been mitigated traumatically.

You're you're you're when you said you should see our Distillery A lot in that has changed in the science. Go ahead. there's there's less art, it's a little more manufacturing automation and the implementation automation. distilleries and whatnot.

Yeah, you're not going to have those man-made errors happening. Things are automated and 100% Yep, talk to me about your journey with beverages. just for a little fun. Um, as a kid, milk or water? soda? As a we're going way back as a child.

not soda, not milk. No. I'm not a sugar guy. Okay, even as a kid, even as a kid.

where where did you grow up I grew up in Cumberland Marland Okay, Maryland where Ry whiskey was King the Manaila river and my parents drank rye and um I went through a period of loving Scotch whiskies all of them. um, the thicker, the better and uh and uh I Started in in my 20s and 30s yeah. I still like of course does you're allowed to like other things besides what you said when I joined the Distillery I I rediscovered rye whiskey. Yep, cuz I I'm a southern boy I was born in Georgia and uh uh I was bourbon.

but Ry whiskey is my passion now and that's what my signature whiskey is. It's it was a blind tasting of barrel tasting so I was surprised when I chose something that's 80% Ry and 20% malt and that's what this is here. that's it. And so you do.

You do that every year. You'll pick the barrel you most like. This was the first year I Hope I do some more. Um, it was a magnificent experience because uh Woody Creek Distillers is very small there.

I bet you there were seven or eight people that decide what goes out. It's not focus groups and stuff like that. It's family. It's craft family business.

Yep, everything is designed to make the best Spirits possible. Um, and we you know you got to be Savvy about social media and and advertising your target audience. But I think it's a bad bad thing when that starts to drive the process I think the process should be. It's that old adage right? if I listen to My Consumer I'd made a a faster horse.

There you go. Yeah I understand. talk to me about your pallet. uh, on non-alcoholic stuff Currently what beverages do you drink that are not Woody Creek um that aren't alcohol tea? um I'll have a tea every once in a while.

but I do love to put a little bourbon or rye and call it a hot TI but that's a cup of tea. y um, water. Yeah I drink a lot of water I'm pretty healthy I love my coffee I'm a snob about the bruise that I use. We've got this brevel machine.

it takes a long time to make it I know I have it as well. but Lord I get excited about my cup of coffee the night you you pick. you pick your beans like your yep so you've got a little bit of that wine DNA in your coffee yeah I guess I do I don't understand that but yes what I mean by that is C You know I've always found coffee most similar to wine where like you're really getting down to the patches of land the coffee beans from Ethiopia You know in wine world like you can literally cross the street in Burgundy. Yeah, you can literally cross a street and one Wine's 40 bucks and the other one's 8,000 Yeah, you know the Tera changes so quickly just in such a short and this goes back to potatoes 100% Like what people don't understand like vodka is a tricky game people talk about.

it doesn't taste different. it tastes different. It's scary to me that the first four years of tasting wine from 21 to 25 I'm talking I was tasting 2550 wines a day building my pallet cuz this was my passion. I remember calling my mom about a year in when I was 22 and remember I've been reading since I was 14 so I knew everything mhm I could tell you everything but I remember about a year in I called my mom and I'm like Mom this isn't going to work out I was really distraught I was like it just all tastes like wine you know I'm reading these reviews chocolate and Gooseberry and raspberry I'm like what the I'm like there's Mom it just tastes like red wine and then I remember calling her 6 months later actually the moment happened I remember I was in a restaurant in Scotch Plains New Jersey doing a tasting of a portfolio.

yeah and I tasted an amaroni and when I tasted it it tasted like a Snickers bar not like red wine and I ran out this I just got in the cell phone I ran out of the place, called my mom I said Mom we're good all right I just tasted chocolate in an Italian red wine and and from that day forward to where I today and I find myself on a similar Journey with other beverages of All Sorts it's very easy for me to taste subtleties. um and I always tell people when they're like I don't get it I'm like think of the thing you drink the most. Do you think you can taste the difference and for a lot of people it's water. The amount of people that like are deeply passionate about their watero tastes different than you know this and and that's what these That's where it gets fun when you you know for a lot of people who've never had a rye, well truthfully, I give them four.

they're like this tastes the same for someone like you. you could taste them all differently. I don't have the pette for it when we did a blind tasting yes I wrote nice sense of humor I didn't know what else to write, you know I love that Uh yeah I I don't get it and sometimes it feels silly to me. but um, it turns out I know what? I like I just don't have the words for it yet.

well you know what's funny you? the sentence you just Del for everyone who's listening if you go on your journey with Rye or Bourbons or whiskies or scotch or anything wine, tea, coffee. The biggest issue I had in the wine world when I was in it was people are intimidated by it I've seen people who like are Titans of Industry get to a fancy restaurant and pass the wine list as quick as they can because they don't want to make the wrong choice. and I always found that fascinating because in food nobody's embarrassed that they're ordering the lobster and not the steak or this kind of pasta. But for some reason in the upper echelons of alcoholic beverages, there's this pretentiousness of like, well, you don't get it, You don't You don't understand this.

you're ordering a Jack Daniels that's not good stuff compared to I Get it I find it very like oh yeah wrong I think what you just said is the most right? Journey Now the key that everybody screws up in my opinion is if they like something whiskey wine, they find one they like and then they drink it. Every exclusiv Correct. That kills me. The the game is cool.

You found a thing you like. Go explore for a little bit of a journey, find your core go-tos but always mix it up a little bit because it actually makes you appreciate your go your core go-to as well. But you're right. it gets so precious sometimes.

I mean sometimes you know they bring the wine if it's a red wine. I'll taste it if it's a white wine and it's not expensive. I say just pour it. Yeah, exactly, just pour it.

It's okay. you can calm down. well it's funny. I'm sure.

for you living in the Hollywood world and the high-end Spirits world, there's I'm sure settings you've been in where you're not sure which one's more douchy, right? No seriously. I've been to a ton of pre you know like this is a category I Love Yeah but like I'm very passionate about the craft of especially the products that you you two represent those small batch family. you're going to get some real stuff. same with wine because I'm very passionate about it.

but man 98% of the events I go to in both sectors. everyone's just trying to outdo each other as if as if their pallets more right than yours. To your point you, this is why I'm hanging on this everyone. Whatever it is, as long as you like it, that's the win.

Listen to your explore things. That's the thing I worry about when people are like, well I like it? No, no, you got to explore because then you actually know if you like it. I Went to the uh, we did this magnificent motorcycle trip and we were in Berlin for the big liquor show there. Huge.

but they were selling things like garbage garbage Spirits it was made from garbage and they there was other stuff they were in oil cans. Everybody like doing backflips to try to rise above the den and sell something. but just at a point it gets silly. Of course it gets silly.

That's like humans are incredibly capable of siling up things. Yeah, you know the other thing for everyone who's listening. I'm going to use my oysters uh uh thesis which is I the oyster thesis here wa yep, you're going to like this because I think this may get people to go out and discover your product. Uh, as we talk about a bourbon, a bourbon, whiskey, ay whiskey, and some B then there's a Jin here by the way I want to get into that in a minute? CU I've been waiting for 20 years for it to have its moment.

Um, and I think it's really underrated and really flexible and like I I'm just curious if we're ever going to I Don't know if it's a subconscious bias against the Brits I'm just just waiting for America to get serious about JY Uh, but um, the oysters Oysters bill? Yeah, Do you know how many people will tell you they don't like oysters, but have never had one? A lot of people. Yes sir. And who can blame them? They look scary? Yes. I'm empathetic to the hypothesis that leads one there.

MH I Also have really enjoyed the last 10 years of my life getting people to try their first one m and literally seeing one out of every two loving it and one out of every two punching me directly in the face cuz it was the worst thing that ever happened to them. This is where I'm going a little bit in the context here. if you're listening right now, uh I I I Really do think exploring and curiosity is a topic that we need to talk more about and I think it comes in all shapes and sizes. When I think about who's listening to this podcast.

Maybe you've been looking for a sign because you're a guy in it's Counselor, but you've always wanted to do acting in theater and like maybe you should just go across the street and go to the local. The local theater or whatever it is ABS right? Like maybe this was the moment cuz you love this guy and you're like this is the sign. Why is Gary having Willam on podcast I'm gonna go number two. If you only drink tequila, that's all you drink.

it's the only thing you like. and I know that it doesn't give me a hang I Hear it every day. but as someone who 25 years ago was sad that nobody in America drank good tequila I'm now sad that people only Dr tequila. So if you're listen right now and and it's awesome and it's great that you love tequila.

but to go on a journey especially for producers like Woody creekers that that are doing the handcrafted thing, go out and try like cool. like if if it's too hot, too much alcohol, not the flavor. Good news, take a sip and move on. Yeah but it's the oysters thesis.

it's a big world. It is a big world I was in I was Paris with my daughter. she was 10 years old and she ordered the snails. My wife and I said okay okay all right so she got the snails.

she took a bite I said what do you think she said it's good if you like soil. it's true she finished them. Uh, fun fact: I ate like 40 es pieces of escaro Saturday Night 40 yeah I'm obsessed with escargo. There's a joke there somewhere I there's definitely a joke there somewhere.

Um yeah, no. es cargo like food is fascinating like people are incredibly Limited and I really do think that curiosity is the underrated human trait right now. people have become incredibly Siloed and um I think there's some coolness to that being into something but expanding matters you talk about Jen I'm a huge fan of Jen and we have a um Mary's Jin it's called it's a blue Jin with a butterfly pea flow in it. Oh my lord it's so good.

it's so good. When when how do you like to drink your Jin straight I'm AIC guy but also just on the rocks with a little squeeze of lemon? how do you drink yours I most of my spirits I like mixing them with ice cubes. Yeah, that's pretty much the big the big circle Ice Cube yeah I like that too. like there's something about a big Cube Yeah, right.

I Feel like it's an American thing. We like everything. like right? like super size like these. No, but the big ice cube does like add to the experience.

Oh, it totally does. I mean if you think about it, it's one of the major components of course. so the ice has to be right. It can be too wet.

You know what's funny. A couple years ago, probably towards the tail end of me being in a being in a liquor store dayto day is when I started to see Premium Tonic. You know my whole career at my dad's store was Canada Dry Tonic 99 Cents plastic whatever. And then you started seeing the high-end tonic and you know in business meetings around the world.

um I I don't do Jin often I I predominantly do wine but when I go Spirits I I I eat my own dog food. So what I was just saying is I'll go exploring and that and it mattered like I Remember 15 20 years ago was when I found Japanese Whiskey Mhm and like now in The Last 5 Years it's gotten super uber collectible and people are passionate. but it was very clear to me the craft and the quality of those products 20 25 years ago um I but the gin and tonic thing, the premium tonic thing really actually matters I Remember two or 3 years ago some into some cool Speak Easy they it was a real setup and I actually asked them to do the same drink for me with two different tonics the generic one and their $50 one and you know I'm always scared that I'm being affected by the knowledge of it. this.

why I Love tasting everything blind. You like really want to know the score. Do a double blind tasting not single blind where you kind of know what the five wines are or bourbons and they're in bags. double blind you have no idea what the hell is being poured.

Um, but the tonic thing fascinates me cuz it makes sense right? Like if the quality is higher, it's the core component. I get cranky when people improve things that don't need to be improved. That's fair. The waters.

You know when they offer you 17 different Waters I I Like to go to a restaurant and say I have a water allergy What are you serving what you were saying You know however. uh on the water side of things. you know when you're buying a bottle of vodka you know almost 50% of what you're buying is just the water. They to cut 100% 290 proof down 100% So it it matters and we're fortunate to be in the Roaring Port Valley there where we get Rocky Mountain Spring Water fabulous water.

Best water in the world and I think that's a key component to to with the whiskey. and Bill how do people find this I assume given it's smaller craft you're probably and knowing how liquor laws work in America I Assume you're not in all 50 states. Well now we. we've tried to grow uh smartly over time.

not too fast in 24. States Now I think we're in all most of the states that matter. You know now the control for the 26 states that are listening that don't matter. Good news.

We're not going to break down the states so you won't know if you live in a state that matters or doesn't matter. Keep going brother. I'm playing I'm play. Is it is it heavy on pre like? Is it given the crafts of it is on premise AKA Restaurants and bars and speak easys more than liquor stores or in all those states that you're in.

It's also readily or somewhat available in liquor stores when you're building a. And of course you have to start on premise. Get the liquor to the lips. The pandemic was a blow cuz all tough timing on premise was gone, gone and uh, you had to you had.

What about your direct to Consumer business. Obviously liquor laws continue to evolve and there's you know, 20 years ago it was impossible for something like this to ship. Now it's a little bit. you know there's more conducive how how's that going by state, it's going good and there's more and more providers coming all the time.

What are your biggest now? We're going to put our business hats because we all nerd out on this podcast about that. What are your biggest biggest states? Uh Cali Well we're based in Colorado Colorado Number One. Probably you know 70% of our business makes it's going down California's big uh for us Texas Illinois Illinois Huge. You know than what's what's going on in this impossibly competitive market? Uh, so we're uh, this is tough.

This is tough you know I mean I I I I Set it up for you to have some vulnerability friends. New York City Boy And the challenge of it's hard the liquor business for some for a supplier like us is do you go with the 800 lb gorilla? So let me let me give everybody some context on this. Just like every other industry, there's incredible consolidation last 50 years in the whole sale business, the people they sell it to and those people sold it to people like me and my dad. Um, so now what you have in Most states is you have one or two major players which is great because they have salespeople and infrastructure.

The problem is for a brand like this is in a world where those people are running a business and they've got 50 cases or 100 cases they sell to them and they want it in the best spots for that big company they're selling a 100,000 cases of Jack Daniels or this that you get lost in the shuffle or then you can choose to go with a little guy who's going to really give a but it's hard for that person to break through to a lot of these accounts because they're competing and so it becomes a really interesting, really interesting game to play of finding the right Partners who care enough about you to care but also have enough of juice on the selling side to get into places. Luckily all we got to do is get them to taste it. Well that's right, that's why this kind, hence why 70% obviously will go down over time in Colorado you have all that infrastructure for a lot more sampling, tasting, flavoring. that's exactly right.

s trial. Yeah is everything in this business it does sell itself. It's finest. Spirits Consumables Yeah, Beverages, snacks, cand consumables.

Everything is about retention. Yeah, so you can be the best marker. I You know I think we're very good at what we do, but when we meet with companies I tell them sometimes when I think they have a flawed product and you know from a subjective point of view. I'm I've been wrong I'm a human being but if I'm like this is not there yet I just remind them.

great marketing just speeds up everyone realizing you have shitty. Yes, well put you know and so to your point. I very much understand Bill I'm proud that it all comes from Colorado too. Everything in the bottle came from Colorado it came from a small Distillery I Don't know why that means something to me, but you know Blends By the way I think local and Tera and craft I think I think that is very romantic to a lot of people.

it is to me. um, final moments. Is there anything we didn't touch on that you two hoped we touch on before we get out of here? I would hope you touched William H Ma let me seey Yeah, this stuff. yeah this stuff gets.

Isn't it yeah? I See it? Oh, look at you in there. Look at me. look at you in the river in the Woody Creek W Creek How uh, how serious did you take picking that outfit CU It looks great tasting. eight barrels and uh with really? Heavy Hitters In the business these guys knew what they.

Oh no. I'm not talking about the product I'm talking about your outfit in this picture. Oh I was freezing my gonads off. it was really cold that water comes out of the mountains and I don't know why it's not.

this Is you picking one specific Barrel that's what this blend is and so one barrel produces how much? About 40 cases, six six packs? So there's only 240 bottles in this? a little bit more? No. So our our Steels and fermentors are capable of about three barrels per. Mash Got it? So this was one mashing. so there were three brother barrels.

uh they all sampled the same but when we blinded it I think Bill had we started with 14 and consistently we all blinded back to this. this m this 80 80 ride 20 mted barley and uh, it's phenomenal and again we I was waiting until I could have a tenure to really get up in the premium. yeah of lied offering of course. and Bon Bond is certainly huge in the business right now and Huge! Hunter prooof Love it, blah blah blah Bill Guys, how do people find this? uh for everybody who's listening around the world and Creek Dis Stillers.com Woody Creek Distiller.com You couldn't have picked a longer name? Yeah, the emails can We can? We can we have that meeting after this podcast Wc.com Yeah, that the problem is that costs a lot of money.

ex might you might have to do another movie and get use some of the proceeds towards a a new URL What? Dis Stillers.com That's a lot of typing. Yeah, but it's easy to remember because what it is, it's what Distillers, and and uh, anything else that we should know about Any uh, back to lips any Vbl. the price point. It's the finest Spirit you can buy in America and the price point is very reasonable roughly.

So for for the bucks for for the bourbon and 54 for the R. And what about public events where people can actually taste whiskey? Fest This Thursday Whiskey Fest is where here in New York uh what is today Tuesday Let's see if we can bump this up to tomorrow so this can go out for the people that want to go and you guys are going to be there. Yeah you're going to be there bro. you bet you can take some selfies.

Yeah man, thank you for being on you brother Best day! Thank you so much.