I Think when you have a people-based business if you don't understand how disproportionate culture is I think you'll lose. And what I mean by losing is there's unbelievable amounts of businesses out there that are winning financially that don't have good culture. It's not good, it's anxious. It doesn't need to be toxic.

it's just not great. It's like a job. It's like whatever you know for me, those companies are missing out on top line revenue and profit. I'm telling all of them.

Get everyone feeling safe, accountable but happy place I Call it honey Empire Honey over vinegar. but we're trying to build an Empire sometimes Garyvee head of Vayner X the advertising holding agency YouTuber You have a lot of things. Welcome to Decoder. Thanks for having me.

Dakota is a sure about structure and process and decision making and you have the most of that so you just have a lot going on. Let's start at the very beginning. How are your companies structured? How does that work? Vaynerx that you just mentioned that a lot of people don't know about. You know they they see the Garyvee of it all.

But they don't realize that there's been 15 1600 person global company vaynerx the main company's vaynermedia. The company I started in 2009 with my brother AJ that's the advertising agency that's the Mad Men Madison Avenue thing. We do media and creative together, which is a little bit of an innovation in today's marketing. World Which means we spend the media and make the content.

Um, that probably that has 1200 or so of the employees. Uh, New York La Toronto Mexico City London Amsterdam um Singapore Australia and a lot of other uh people in the Aipac region. so that's that. And then the next biggest companies in Vaynerx are the Gallery Media Group which houses Purewow.com and 1 37 P.m So it's publishing similar to what you mean all of you are doing.

Then there's the Sasha group named after my father. Um, that's a Agency for Smbs. So we're getting so much inbound, especially given my career on like more mom and pop businesses. not the Pepsis and the chase, but exactly So we wanted to create something of that that's been really fruitful.

James Rossini runs that. There's Vayner 3 which is an innovation strategy company. AI uh, blockchain VR QR uh, that's more like a Bain and McKinsey company. Avery runs that.

that's going well. Vayner Speakers a speaking bureau Zach runs that. Um, then there's Eva no Saddam which is Madison Ave spelled backwards. Even though Saddam Productions which is a production company that makes our commercials, we do.

you know a lot of Super Bowl a lot of uh, different kind of commercials. The Jimmy John's um, uh, young Gravy ad recently the Cheetos thing we do Dwayne Wade a couple years ago when he retired for Budweiser those kind of things. So that's the production company. so that's kind of like the you know, a big ecosystem uh of ours.

there's Vayner Commerce a Commerce business. so that's that world. Then there's the Moonlighting I do helping out my dad with the original business Wine Library talking to my best friend Brandon Uh, warnicky. So that's that world.

It's a Wine Library Wine Techs.com that's going super well. especially wine techs. Get a text today. Reply: get discounted wine Um, there's Vayner Sports My brother AJ and Greg Genske are the co-ceos of that AJ Left halfway through the Vayner journey and wanted to do something he loved that's become a very big business.

We just announced the basketball Division with babe Frazier who was Mellow's right hand for all those years. Um, but we're very big in baseball Boba Justin Turner many others football Kirk Cousins Aiden Hutchinson many others UFC Stephen Milich Corey Sandahagan many others So that's going super well. Then there's V friends I've always wanted to buy a intellectual property, so I used to think I was going to buy The Flintstones or Gumby or the Smurfs the Nft thing came I'm like wait a minute. This is a place to launch it I Launched me friends a couple years ago.

so that's my intellectual property. a business grounded in blockchain but also expanded to the real world. And then there's a little tiny room these days though. it's been a big chapter over the last decade of the garyvee of it.

All right. you know all my content. Um, I'm really not public speaking anymore I am writing a new book, but it's taken me a little while with how busy I am um and uh and all the content creation the podcast. So that's historically been a business in itself though when we friends came up, it sucked all the energy out of the garyvee of it all because I've got to really run that.

so that's um. then there's obviously my investing I do a lot of Angel Investing some through a fund with Phil Toronto and my brother AJ uh, vaynerfund three Um. and then there's boards I sit on non-profit and and public and or private. Um, so yeah.

busy. So you mentioned they are actually 60 other people that's a big holding company that's got the Ad Agency and a bunch of other stuff. Then you mentioned some companies that are not part of it. How do you decide what's in what's up, what's in vaynerx? What's not in vain? X So the reality is is that I do I do view, you know, be friends and and Vaynerak says the two cores.

But there are moments when AJ needs me on. Vayner Sports There's going to be moments as Eric Wattenberg builds out our production company where I'm gonna have to fly to LA and pitch a show for a big opportunity on Netflix you know it's going to happen. Um so I decide based on two Chiefs of Staff and three admins whose full-time job is to take all the inbound that comes in my text and my slack and my email and strategize. We spend a lot of time, you know, during the week thinking about the three weeks ahead.

We're always. you know, lots of 15-minute meetings instead of 30 trying to make a lot happen and then you're in. You're It's almost like being in the news business. You know, like like all of you, you have your editorial strategy, but then you know it's like in the sports media business, you have your strategy for today and then Aaron Rodgers gets traded to Jets officially and that's going to change up.

And that's what being an operator at a high level I think with multiple things going on is I Have my strategy for this week. but anything can happen in the next hour. That blows out three hours and then those three hours have to get back in the books because those are top five percent things in a world of a million things being thrown at you and so it's a constant flow. How much do you delegate right actually in your slack? Your admins have like full stock access to to your scary ends.

Scarier than that, my admins have access to everything. Yeah my iCloud my my email I Live a transparent life with my accents like you know they're they might they're in sign into all my social. Um, yeah. I Keep it very transparent with them because I need to be able to navigate quickly and they need all the data points.

So I delegate tremendously. Yeah, I Don't think you really can I Would argue that for a lot of people listening or watching, all of their limitations on the growth of the things they're operating. By the way, whether that's a family that you're operating and not delegating enough to the oldest child or to a friend or an aunt or a grandparent, or if you're running a business or like me, many, many, many businesses, delegation, Trust the lack of ego of thinking. You do everything.

The best is an incredible thing that I most look at when I'm trying to help a friend, family member, or an investment to figure out why they're not scaling. When you say about delegation, there's the admins. Then you've got companies. You've got people running your companies.

How do you decide? Okay, these are the people who are going to be in charge of this company inside of Interacts And this company needs to be outside of Interacts with a different leadership structure. Um, outside of Interacts has been easy. Steve Ross The owner to Dolphins is a business partner of ours and couldn't own a piece of this sports agency so we spun that out and then with Vayner So Vayner Sports and Vayner water the only things outside of the company Vayner Watt because Eric needed to be such a significant partner, it needed to sit out of the structure. But most things will go into Vaynerx if they're in that service world.

The way: I Really decide? That is pretty simple I either really know or I really don't know and let me explain: Avery Who runs Vayner three? Um or Jeannie who runs Vayner Toronto They were Executives that were here three, four, five years doing great work that made me confident to send Avery to APAC or Jeannie to up to Toronto. Then there's guessing You know I made a subjective guess on Gabby who runs Latam in Mexico City I mean a subjective guess on Daisy who'd been in for a couple months to take over Amia UK Europe And then in those scenarios, you go in optimistic. You go in focused on trying to help them, and then in a 12, 18, 24, 36 month window, you're making a final decision. If you made the right car, are you to? Autumn Here are the matchups on Judge and Elon make the number go out.

Not really. I'm really yes, they can't go out of business. yeah, but I'm a little, you know I'm not publicly held company I'm not looking to exit so I you know I'd like them to be fiscally responsible. They can't be completely aloof.

but I would argue that what I most focus on is like if you do not have the people that work for you and I mean all of them, not your direct reports. incredibly happy with you feeling safe cold. I Think when you have a people-based business, if you don't understand how disproportionate culture is I think you'll lose I Really do. And what I mean by losing is there's unbelievable amounts of businesses out there that are winning financially that don't have good culture.

It's not good. It's toxic. It's not good. It's anxious.

It's it doesn't need to be toxic or that serious. It's just not great. It's like a job. It's like whatever you know.

For me, those companies are missing out on top line revenue and profit and so you know I Think for me: I'm telling all of them get everyone feeling safe because there's so much fear in the world and get everyone understanding how unique the marketing strategies we have are. or and be friends, what we're actually up to or whatever company it is Vayner Sports How well we are in marketing off the field. get the court messages down and understand them. But most importantly, build a safety, happy, accountable but happy place.

I Call it honey Empire honey over vinegar. but we're trying to build an Empire that's you. Know this is not for fun and so those are. Those are the metrics and and that is a struggle for people on the outside, right? Everyone out here.

these big buildings is being trained to win on the p l not on the culture. This is actually my next question please. So we've got a big holding company. You've got lots of empowered Executives Yes, we talk a lot on the show about divisional structures versus functional structures.

A lot of tech companies are functional, right? Tim Cook runs marketing and he runs product and it all rolls up to him. And at the end of the day they somehow produce an iPhone Other companies are divisional, right? You've got just a stack and you've got some redundant functions. And then how is how is Vaynerak structured? A little bit of a mix of the two. Yeah, you know the reality is I do a lot of casting on leaders? Yeah, you know the what's interesting is we're a 13 year old company, but Vaynermedia, Vaynerx is even younger.

That happened when I bought Pure. Wow! we started building it six years ago. A lot of this has to do with, you know. HQ The Vaynerx of it all has its leaders, but we keep that pretty thin and we give a lot of power to the leaders of Divisions and companies.

But you are micromanaging and creating redundancy while you're It's almost like a kid riding a bike. Yeah, you've got to give them training wheels, especially if they're from the outside. When I bring in new leaders from the outside I'm going to create some cushions. you know, just because.

The reality is is we do it very differently, both the craft and the culture. and so once someone is able to like cross over the hill then I think we can make it. You know, far more autonomy based. but we like I like to be close to uh, people that have enormous amounts of control though I have no interest in micromanaging them.

Yeah! so I'm in the business of Bat phone I'm in the business of making them feel safe Sebastian Bat Phone So there's a crisis here Nicole Gary Even more, No, everyone has the same number, but it's it's You know it's funny. it's not yes, crisis. It's more like just like keep Me close, use me. You know so many of these leaders actually.

Ironically, we had a global offset yesterday. Um, so many of them want to prove to me they can do it and I keep telling them hey I know you can do it. The problem is, you've been doing it for 20 years. On the outside, there's 7 300 nuances here.

Text me and ask like I'm not judging you I'm here to help you I work for you but outside Executives struggle with that. They don't believe me and it sometimes takes three to five years for me to break through of like I'm not kidding like I'm not. You're not gonna get fired by missing your numbers, but you definitely become vulnerable if people aren't happy. And the quickest way for people to not be happy is for you to be scared of me.

Yeah, and it. which then trickles down. do people use your name to get what they want I feel like at a company that's called Vayner X run by Gary Vaynerchuk? you mean Executives with each with each other. What's this? Does that happen? I'm sure I'm sure that's happening.

The the cool thing is as a 13-year company, we have almost 100 people that have been here for nine years or longer with crazy retention. and I think what's awesome about that when I hear this? I would say six seven years ago, probably a lot more than today. There's too many people entrenched in too many places that know the truth of it all that it's almost like been. It's almost like a double negative.

like like there's there's so many family members in so many different places that I think it doesn't. It's harder to get away with that, but I'm sure that happens every day. Yeah, I was just curious, especially when your name is on the door. What's cool is I have such an aggressive open door policy that ironically the junior people use me more than the senior people at times.

and so a lot of people are comfortable even like a year in only meeting with me once. but based on everything that they know to email me and be like hey, my boss's boss boss said this is this true and I'm like no or yes like you know it's it's I Couldn't encourage leaders that are listening here more on finding as many five and ten minute slots to say hello to a new employee. Like just that. Breaking the ice of it all is massive.

Yeah, this brings me to I think the decoder question you're describing right? This process you have where you you make big long-term strategy, you have a vision, and then you're very reactive to things that are happening to you. incoming information all along. How do you make decisions? So I'll answer that and I love how you put that I Literally operate on macro patients and micro speed I make decisions based on a lot of things. One, um, my intuition I Really do believe that I think a lot about what do we know today that people didn't know 100 years ago? A ton a ton about the body, the mind I Always ask myself what are people going to know 100 years from now that we don't know today? My favorite running thesis right now is that we don't talk enough about the gut, the intuition, the operating system that this is.

We know this is. but we don't talk enough about this. And so my big guess in 100 years is this is understood a lot more and it's like a normal part of life intuition. You mean, that's right, Microbiome? both, by the way.

Okay, ironically it's funny I was about to say that, but that's exactly right. both. Actually, how much of an impact on your life this is? So intuition is very big. Pattern recognition is enormous for the 23 year olds.

Harder for everybody who's 45 and older. massive experience matters. These gray hairs start to add up right. They do have value, and so pattern recognition number three: A complete utter focus on intent and lack of fear.

Every decision I make I know has good intent truly, thus rendering me very confident that if there's ramifications or I made a misstep that the the apology is always there, that the correction is there, The vulnerability, the humility I'm not scared of making a wrong call and I think that's a huge part of my decisions and then tons of data. The reason I want the bat phone which is really more just check in and let's keep talking is I can make fast decisions when I'm sitting on a lot of information. Yeah, and so I'm talking to all my employees all the time, virtually through text or in person. mainly to make me have the ability to go fast in the future.

One of my biggest beliefs is that most CEOs don't spend enough time judging the judgers I am judging my 40 50 most senior people on how much I value their word blindly like Marcus and Hannah my chief of staff who I'm looking at across the window right now because they've been here for nine and 13 years or less. but a road to it for an executive that's maybe running a company or an office that's only been here for two or three years. Yeah, I can't be blindly with them yet. I Don't have enough data but the framework I work in.

so I'm just talking to you. Uh, here in person. you're very animated. very Charming You're very direct.

I Have discovered that when I'm very direct in digital communication come off like a huge trick. How do you do all the things you do and communicate digitally with your team? I Don't communicate digitally. You know you're not slacking. you're not I I do.

But I'm petrified of it I tell everyone if it's something real, get out of text. Yeah, the misinterpretation of the written word digitally is a Monster Yeah, people will consume it based on their framework. or when I do it and I have to give any level of direct I'm coming with a heart emoji and a sun right behind it I do that a lot and I do that a lot because I'm petrified that someone's losing the tone. Yeah, we had a Cole just joined our team.

We just joined our WhatsApp where my team works on our content. He doesn't know me? yeah and if I've got something to say, right, he might think on his first day like wait a minute Gary's actually full of he's not as nice like I need to put that heart emoji I think people need to the voice memo so they can hear my voice. Um, I'm petrified to deliver even neutral to slightly candorous feedback in just written word I Think it's a massive mistake I have completely gotten my leadership team off of the long email that's talking about like today, we've had like I mean I'm like it's crazy. you're scaring people so you know you know Again, if it's with Sid who I've been with for eight or nine years I could do anything he knows it's cut meaning he in written form because he knows it's coming from a good place.

But back to your point when I'm being direct which is by the way Ironically Garyvee in interviews my content great a Candor Gary Vaynerchuk the Executive has struggled historically with Candor Yeah I Hate negativity I hate I've always seen Candor as something that would scare people I had a misunderstood for the majority of my career so I call it kind Candor You need to if you're delivering Candor You need to be empathetic that the other person on the other side is not going to feel great. Yeah, even if it's like truly Fair they're still going to feel bad about themselves. So why not have compassion and try to make them feel a little bit better by referencing something you've struggled with or just fixing the tone? So I think about that a lot. Yeah, I Always think about it in terms of you can tell people it's okay to feel bad and then you can work through it together.

but that first step is really hard. Yeah, or you could really put it on yourself as a leader and try to make them feel less bad. Yeah, like there's absolutely a way to make someone feel slightly less bad when you're telling them that they're not good at their job. Let me talk about carrying me with you.

You brought up this other character Garyvee versus Gary Vaynerchuk, the Executive. Yep, the business of Garyvee yes, seems as complicated, as chaotic as anything, and it exists on social platforms. forever changing. Yes, we were talking to your team just before you sat down about just how much video of you is logged every single day.

Yes, and what an enormous operation is is guarantee that's a character you're playing. No, no, oh, it's it's me. fully. Um, it's just the context of the room is different right now I Know that we have a long form video, an audio execution and I do believe that being slightly entertained or engaged and this was something I did subconsciously when I first started speaking I didn't it just I have intuitive understanding that you're more likely to get your message across that people actually pay attention, right? So no, I don't There's nothing that I've ever put out on the internet that is stick or fake.

Yeah, Um, it's just that the context is different if I'm having a company off site that's trying to navigate a 350 million dollar a year business you can imagine with 15 people, that's going to be a very different tone and tenor yesterday than me doing a podcast on one of one of my favorite media platforms out there like I'm just gonna be more excited I know that somebody's running on the treadmill right now walking their dog driving in their car and I want them to continue to hear the words and if it's like super serious and mundane, that might not be the energy you're looking for. I'm also aware that my energy might be too much for someone. this is like too hyper and that's okay. This is just what naturally happens to me when there's cameras going and so no, it's not character life.

it's just a slightly more animated version of myself. Given that, I get more excited when I think there's more people involved, but when you have this many people following around with cameras, vlogging everything you say, ingesting it into what sounds like a very impressive air table system. I'm very jealousy. you're a reality show, right? I mean like you're kind of producing a daily reality show and that naturally has to heighten whatever loudest characteristics you have I don't know about that I'll explain if you look I would argue that YouTube is the platform that I do least.

Well, yeah, mainly because I'm not overly passionate from a reality TV show standpoint. meaning: I'm not trying to rate I don't want the Vlog to be overly successful from like winning an Emmy or getting a lot of viewers I'd be fine with it I'm trying to document way more than I'm trying to entertain. Yeah, um, a big part of the Vlog was done because I lost both my grandfathers before I got to know them and I thought it would be neat that one day in 67 years this would exist. I Also knew that it would bring awareness and demand, but I really wanted it as a blueprint for people to see like this entrepreneur thing is not so fun.

like it's not as easy as it's not cool as it's become and so yeah, no. I Don't you know there's for example, there's nothing that I do day to day that has anything to do with the Vlog Yeah, it's just a documenting framework. Well, I can ask you. Do you ever turn it off? Yeah, right, a lot.

What's quiet vaynerchuk like the weekends, the the the holidays? you're out there like flipping Beanie Babies man very you know I think what I've done really well is back to them. Following me around is I've garage sailed three times in the last three years? Yeah, I'm just very good at content creation of maximizing what I do. So no I mean on the weekends I'm spending time with my family. uh I'm decompressing.

Um, quiet me is still hyped like I'm an excitement. you know, like I'm excited I'm happy I'm I'm incredibly motivated and grateful for having a life I Think that people take for granted I Uh I'm on the board of uh, Charity Water Yeah, 850 million people on Earth more than 10 don't have access to clean water I Find it very hard to not be excited about life when we live in a first world country where both my parents are alive. where I have great siblings and a family like I'm very fortunate and so gratitude is a huge like I think people have envy and jealousy and dwelling and complaining DNA and that's a drainer. But when you're grateful and optimistic, you're kind of just excited for like like I'm pumped when a weekend is this sunny I Actually noticed today when I was working out that it was really sunny and then my brain said I hope this weekend's going to be nice.

Yeah, like I'm grateful for very simple which makes me excited and calm when you think about the image you put out into the Universe I Watch your tick tocks I Love your tick tocks. You're always talking to an audience. Yes, right! It always seems like you're addressing some room. Yes, that's the majority of your content.

Your audience does not see that you're just walking on the treadmill and you're happy that it's not outside. with your family. You have a very particular kind of image. Do you worry that you're leading people to believe that you're always on and that they should themselves always be on? No.

I Don't worry about that at all. I think for example: I Think people find what they're looking for like yeah, like I've been very aggressive of like I don't want to share my personal life I have tons of challenges I speak about vulnerabilities I am a public figure. People know about my stuff like no I really don't I understand the question Yeah I Think that it's time that we have a more thoughtful conversation around this meaning I as a human when I consume content at scale, never believe that any of the people that I'm consuming are showing you every single thing of their life. nor do I believe it's as good or as bad or is it I I Think that's a very, um, lazy, intellectual point of view and so you have that money because you grew up with it I grew up with the internet I grew up with Well, YouTubers right? But go ahead.

grew up with you, right? It didn't exist and it slowly has gotten to where it is now and you've seen that whole transition. I Think about our young audience. they're fishing. They don't know about the water, right? They just grew up in a world where influencers exist.

In a world where YouTubers exist where being a YouTube star is a career path that you can tell your parents when you're five years old, right? And so you have this view where like this isn't all real then you're making the reality show. Oh, that's what makes me reality show. and you have an audience that doesn't know that it's a show. Well, I I Think you I think the way you frame that up is a little awkward.

Let me explain I Think everything I show is real. It's just not the complete part of my life and there's certain things I decide not to share. Yeah, you know I think I Also think when I think about this. When I was a kid pre-internet we we looked up to stuff too.

You know my big question is where is parenting in 2023? Yeah, like like I I think that. but you are that figure for a lot of for a lot of people, young men in particular, you are that figure. Yeah, but I You know that is such an extraordinarily deep challenge, right? Like you know when I think of being someone that someone may look up to I'm humbled by that and so much of the way. I Create Content understands that to be true.

but I could never comprehend. You know the the complexity of actually being someone's parent. or you know, someone loses a parent and who who replicates or fills that void you look at that kind of from a human journey and there's many inputs that fill that void. Yeah, I Think that's right.

I do think that there's incredible um Intrigue that I have about the sheer volume of people that are putting out information in the world. but I feel like that has always been the game like there's an entire generation of Boomers who live their life like Mickey Mantle because he was the one that they looked up to so it's always existed. What I'm actually optimistic about is there's way more ways to look at things today. And I think how people choose their paths is interesting.

You talked a lot about being adaptable and that experience. There's a tension there, right? Uh, You in particular are very good at using your experience to adapt to new. Platforms in particular, from YouTube to Instagram to tick tock to nfts if that pans out. Yep, how do you think about that tension? All right we gotta.

we're doing well on YouTube But I got to take everything I know and go find a new audience on Tick Tock Because you talk. This is something you talk about a lot. like a lot. You gotta jump when the time's right.

You gotta jump when the time's right. If that's your ambition, you know back to your point which I thought was really great in the last series of questions. One of the things I talk a lot about back to people hearing what they want to hear is you need to be self-aware over everything and understand the journey you're on. So if you're a business and you want to grow your business, you have to go where the consumer attention is.

That's just the requirement. So the way I think about it is I am on my journey to try to build as much awareness as possible for the things that I'm passionate about. That requires me to I'm not thrilled if tomorrow Black Jacket becomes a hot platform. but I have no choice but to take it seriously because this is you know for me I enjoy my craft I enjoy my job and I want to do that.

On the flip side, I'm very empathetic and talk a lot to the audience of like hey you this happened huge three four years ago I'm like tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock tick tock and everyone's like dude I'm just getting Instagram down and I'm like cool. You're more than welcome to not do it. You have to understand the attention is going to move there and you need to understand where you are on your journey. You can't be ideological about where you want the consumer attention is.

you need to be where the consumer attention is. Yeah. I Guess the reason I ask you that is that constant change that platform churn. I'm looking at this state of social media today.

I'm looking at a bunch of YouTubers who are worried about growing out culture and they talk about it openly. I'm worried about a bunch of tick talkers who seem like they rose with the platform got burned out and they've kind of receded. Yeah, right. That first wave of really big tick tockers, they kind of pulled back.

but that's good, isn't it? I wonder I it feels like being the most famous person on YouTube is no longer a great business. It was never a great business being the most famous person. I mean think about what we're dealing with you and I grew up in an era where we knew that child stars. it was tough.

Yeah and so a lot of these kids get so much Fame and money at such a young age. it's really hard to calibrate that. So you're coming at this from like a marketing perspective that when you talk about attention right what I hear is okay. this is a great marketer who's saying okay I gotta go send a message and we gotta move to the platform and be native platform.

There is a generation of entrepreneurs who are like this is my business. my business is making content. You know, a bunch of things of course of course. Uh, and you go between those worlds, right? Garyvee is a brand that makes content as a business.

I'm sure it's monetized. If you're the world's best tick tocker and you reach the peak, you're not making as much money as if you turn around and launch a merch line and stop making tick tocks. and that pattern to me since really, it seems like the we're at the end of the road. Like everyone's realized, the centralized social platforms are not stable foundations to build businesses.

Meaning if you're just monetizing as an influencer, yeah, if you're Montana even if if they're your core marketing platform. well that would be like saying running commercials on Seinfeld is not sustainable. No, yeah, like once it's not got the attention you have to move on. Yeah, so like as core marketing I think it's crazy to not extract awareness from where it's actually being consumed.

Yeah, so that's that to your point on the human element, that's a whole different game that comes down to Parenting and DNA right? right? Like when I met the Demilios, I was like oh, these girls are extremely fortunate. This is like a real dad and mom. Yeah, it's like my Vayner Sports business. You know, do you know many athletes grow up with nothing and then sign big contracts? and the ones that have self-awareness and stability do incredibly well with their money and their life.

And the ones that don't become quite vulnerable to your point? when you're a business, it's easier to move, ebb and flow when you're a human, There's going to be a natural time where you can't deal with the negative comments, the workload. But I view that more like the way we looked at like the Madonnas and Michael Jackson's and all those people in the 80s which is I think you'll see them ebb and flow It was funny I was listening to a Bruno Mars song this morning and like it was just in rotation on my Alexa and I was like where is Bruno Mars like he right now and I was thinking I'm like oh he's probably like chilling right now and like decompressing from world tour and all that Fame We've seen every single famous person over the last 40 50 years. It's impossible to stay white hot forever because you're a human and you need to take a break. I mean I did five years of a wine show every day from 2006 to 2011 and was like really out and about and going and then in 2011 from 2011 to 14 I made very little content building the foundation of this business a because this business was an opportunity but B because I was like I don't want to make wine content every day my daily Vlog I did it every day for three four years.

filmed everything the team will tell you right now with their head nods. We've been getting back into it. I don't want to film half the stuff because I'm out of because I'm because I'm out of rotation Yeah I'm like in this place that I think every human should be comfortable when they want to go for it when they don't. Similar to working out Yeah, I'm sure in your 42 you said yeah, you've had moments where you've been better or worse about eating and exercise habits.

I think the same thing for an influencer. like they're gonna be hot at certain times they're not going to be hot and what I mean by that is they themselves. They're going to be intuitive times, they're not going to be into it at times. and I think the the influencer business yeah I think is incredibly sustainable I Just don't think it's sustainable for every person every minute.

And to your point, some of them have other entrepreneurial capabilities, so that seems like the path out, right? It seems like once you've once you find your way out to Prime right? or whatever. Yeah, but how many people are going to be able to be? Emma Chamberlain Logan Paul And you know? and Mr Beast Yeah, right. Like there's a lot of brands that have been started by a lot of people like you know. When I did Empathy Wines years ago as a DTC brand, I knew that I could do it because I was an operator.

A lot of these people are not actual operators or won't find a partner operator that's good. and so I I think that it's A and conversation not an or I think there'll be plenty of people that will continue to be a personal brand in perpetuity. Just like there are celebrities who get paid to be celebrities in perpetuity. To your point, some of those celebrities Jessica Alba Some of those celebrities Reese Witherspoon Ashton Kutcher had DNA Ryan Reynolds Kevin Hart The Rock So I think it's going to be and for some people.

but I Do think the Long Tail of Influencer is a sustainable business model. But to your point I Don't think every human nor most humans can do it forever. They'll have been flow and ebb and flow. Yeah, do you think that it's harder because the platform has changed so much? I Think it's easier.

You think it's easier too. What did we do? Grabbing and flowing in in one of your middle of your down period? Everyone's attention moves from YouTube to what if you're short. what about when you add them flow as John Travolta And then people decided they didn't want to give you a chance again. he was out of the game for 15 years.

but I mean his business was selling acting Services right? If you're an influencer and you're making branded Integrations with your YouTube videos and something, that market disappears because all the attention's on Tick Tock but it's core of your business. But but you know you're speaking to a world that I don't think exists. Yeah, no I think it's great. Let's talk about it in the last.

What are we in 2023? In the last 17 years How many of the biggest platforms have disappeared off the face of the Earth Vine which was only nine months old? Yeah right. Dear sweet one I know. So when a lot of these people came from that That really? Actually, if you look at Vine I think Vine will be historically looked at very interestingly because it's what started short form video at that level. But if you really look at the last 17 years, YouTube Facebook Twitter right? Instagram Snapchat Tick Tock It's not like they've disappeared.

one of them seems like it might be disappearing in front of our eyes. Tick Tock Twitter might be a whole other thing. Well I think you know I've been, you know Twitter if I'm reading the tea leaves and I have no inside info or any curiosity. But if you look at this whole X and like like it looks like what Elon is signaling is, he wants to build an app that's more similar to WeChat in China which is full stack.

I'm really curious what that all means, but I don't think it's going away. It seems like it's about to be potentially part of something bigger. Yeah, but it seems like the users are like thinking about what what's next right? Like, So they're the business. Either way, it's we.

You're correct. we've rarely seen platforms disappear I Think we have seen them lose relevance, right? And in particular, I Think that mid-form YouTube video the Vlog is like it used to be the gold standard. It's whatever it wanted to build and now everyone wants to build tick tocks and stuff. So I think look, it's so funny.

You say that because I actually have a slightly different take. It's been crazy to me how many people are fired up that they're going from Tick Tock to YouTube Shorts and using YouTube Shorts to get 2 million subscribers to their longer form. YouTube Literally, my conversation with the Tick Tock emerging influencer is their excitement to go long form on. YouTube Because YouTube Shorts has given them the subscribers they've always wanted because so many of them actually wanted to be YouTube stars, but it was easier to grow on.

Tick Tock So I think look, it's different for every person to the last 10 minutes of this combo. but I don't you know? I Think the old media landscape was much harder to navigate because you had be chosen by humans subjectively and now with these platforms, they're empty pipes and you as a human decide if you want to enter if you want to be good at it, if you don't ebb and flow in and out. and I think that um, I think that's good as long as the human is self-aware and doing the right things by themselves. how do you bring this all to your to your clients? Again, what's the Advantix Yeah, this company is fair media.

It's the Ad Agency Yes, a lot of the clients. Now the internet is not a foreign concept when you started it was right. Yes, this is a very new pitch theme, Yes. But now there are other great ad agencies that are native to the space.

What's your pitch? How do you go and make business debut? Is that where the word? We think? They're also too bullish on tomorrow, you know. Even though I was very bullish and continue to be on Nfts the macro, we had clients who wanted to build million dollar metaverses last year and I was like are you out of your mind There's like four people in the Metaverse so they gave excited about tomorrow. They're way too religious about yesterday and our pitch is like we're the best of today. We do the media buying and the creative, the strategy behind that creative for the 10 platforms LinkedIn Facebook Twitter Instagram Snapchat Tick Tock Pinterest And when we get the consumer insights out of that creative, the quantum qual data, the numbers, and the comments, it allows us to have a better brief.

I'm pointing to that because usually it's about that long of a brief to then make the longer form videos that are modern day commercials. We want to make the commercials that are going to be strong on Hulu connected TV fast channels and so that's our pitch. We're an ad agency that just thinks that television ads are overpriced and bad. Digital is overpriced and you should do today's best and social happens to be that now.

But if I started Vaynermedia in 1997, it would have been email and and then in 2000 we would have gone into search and in 2041, we may be completely out of social because maybe the attention is on VR or metaverse. I'm very agnostic I'm not overly passionate where the attention is. Uh, back to the tick tock thing Gary What happens if tick tock's banned I'm like we'll go where the like I have no emotion towards Twitter or Tick Tock or Facebook or Instagram what? I do have a motion to What you mentioned earlier is as long as I'm acting in my professional life I understand that attention matters I'd like to understand where the best price is to get that attention and I'd like to be good at bringing value with the videos, words and content because I know that that always will work for the business if they're providing value. Let me ask you one question about attention and I want to end with Nfts? Yeah, you talk about attention like a commodity.

like you can price it and sell it. Yes, it's pretty ruthless actually. like in a just a business sense you're talking about like you're trading oil or gold or something. Yeah, I am a news person that takes my attention a very different way.

Yes, I watched one of your Tech talks the other day. You were telling people how to make great content. You know if you got a thought just Google it, find an article green screen yourself in a full article. This is how you can capture attention on Tick Tock and I thought.

One that's brilliant I told our team to start doing that with articles and then two I thought this is scary should I ever heard because now we're trading on other people's trust. Trust that there's a news article, but we're just doing it to harvest attention. Well that's when that ruthless side of it where we're just harvesting tension I feel like there's a danger there? Well I think that's what the news does like I think humans are just acting like to your point most of the news that I consume on Fox decoder CNN and any other place that's good, you got me up there. I got you brother.

Listen I think Jim you know. just full disclosure I don't know if I should disclose. it's like um like I admire Jimmy's Journey on building this Media company. So yes, I'm so pumped for all the stuff you're doing the very so much good stuff.

Um, but that's what it does right. Like Like when Adam some schefter reports something CBS says Adam schefter report you know like I actually think what humans are doing with green screen which was a creative strategy of the moment. Do you feel like you have a responsibility to use the attention you harness positively constructively? Because if you're pretty ruthless there, there are other people who don't feel that way, right who are just after it for traffic, who are just after it for clicks or just after I agree for attention. Yeah, and you're right on the precipice where you talk about it like a commodity.

But I know you and I know you feel that responsibility. What is that responsibility for you? I want to be historically correct I want to feel good when I put my head on the pillow I want to talk about the things I'm passionate about? Yeah, I don't I don't need to make my money? Uh, you know I don't monetize that attention directly the way media does I monetize that from awareness if people are interested in the things that I do and then there's secondary realities of like here's a book or people come and see me speak thus rendering my speaking fee high or I make a wine and I'm like hey, I think this is a better 20 wine and that attention gives me the opportunity to ask for an opportunity. So no. I I Do think attention is the most important commodity in the world I don't think of it like I bought it for a dollar and sold it for a Dollar too I Think of it as like when you have your children before they're 18.

that attention is everything in the framing of how they're going to live their life. And you better take advantage of the attention when you're a business person. If you can get attention, you get a chance to tell people about your products and services. It doesn't mean they're going to buy it.

I Actually think one of the biggest issues of people who go patient with attention is they expect people to buy stuff from them after they've done a good job by getting the attention in a good way. And I Always tell them you're not entitled to them buying anything. You're entitled to getting a chance for them to know about it. So that's how I think about it.

Go sign with your friends a few friends is maybe the ultimate example of you have a lot of attention on yourself. Yes, and you sold out products to Consumers Yes in a way that apart from the wine I don't think you've sold a lot of correct. Those are the two moves. The sneakers a little bit, books a little bit and I hear you on? you want you've always wanted to have IPS if you found a technological opening to create a franchise.

Nfcs were pretty weird in that moment, right? They were pretty bubbly. They were people were buying them way too high. Yes, the market has crashed. Yes.

Do you have any regrets about that whole situation? Not really. Um, because I mean micro regret? You know, like like I I made a ton of videos of 99 of these Nfts are going to zero. Yeah, and I mean a ton of that at the height. So that's why I'm able to answer not really because I was talking about it in a very macro way.

The other thing was it was important for me to make my Nfts be a part of something that was physical so befriend. Series One came with three tickets to a super business conference called Vcon that the price of the mint was worth the conference in itself. Yeah so and then Series two came with trading cards that have created a lot of Demand on eBay and things of that nature. So I feel macro good.

Of course there's a million things you want to do a little bit better of getting over excited during moments along the way, but I'm really glad back to like do I feel a response ability on making content? Yeah I but in you know in when be friends came out one in May of 21 it was a very young Market it kind of. and then things went bananas right? So in August and September and October of that year I started changing my content to hey this is something you need to learn about to hey 99 of these are going to zero Like to your point where Nfts are on the macro pricing not the technology. The products that the the Beanie Babies of it all not stuffed animals are going to be here for 100 years. The beanie babies and the Garbage Pail Kids have been all right.

People come up to me like what do you what I'm like Look like this was always about the macro technology and there was unlimited content of 99 are going to zero but people will hear what they want During that time when I was like because they're paying you money for a thing right? Well but but that was long. You have to said they paid money for a thing in May right? which again came with physical items and the Nft was that's a reframing right? So now the value is the physical items. The value wasn't a reframing. If you go watch all the like it really wasn't it was.

there's a collectible I will spend 50 years trying to build this IP Let's see what happens if I'm capable. Yeah, Comma Here is the conference that comes with it and this is how it's priced So you know the good news is like one great thing about documenting everything and doing this all the time is it's there. Yeah, it's there. I Also have the benefit of like genuinely believing that I'm gonna make people fall in love with optimistic, otter and patient Panda and that becomes a Marvel and Pokemon Journey over the next two decades And this goes.

You know you really touched on something so important for me. What's the person's intent You know you said, do you have a responsibility in your content Yes, that's why I put out what I put out Um, do I have a responsibility to make this a big thing? We sure do. a lot of people want to believe that I'm going to be able to pull it off and I believe I'm going to be able to pull it off. So I think the intent and then the actions because you can't just have intent is gonna become what everyone is judged on.

And I take that stuff serious. What do you think? The timeline? uh, for the friends and then to use your word. Macro for Nfts to become serious to become meaningful. Well I mean series one is Meaningful Now it's dramatically above even with an 80 90 decline.

massively above what people paid for it. Um, but to your point and Twelve eight, you know I think a lot about years. Yeah, um, it's just going to take time. like to get millions of people to care about.

you know, rare robot and you know I've gotta I'm you know I started a TV production company to do animation I signed a kids book deal. you know we've done toys already with Macy's and Toys R Us like it's just a lot of work right? It takes time. Um, you know, but you know I think what's cool about Nfts is when you bring utility in the smart contract. That was always what gave me peace of mind to your point.

empathy, selling wine, peace of mind. when you're selling 40 wine for 20 bucks, people are gonna like it we friends. What gave me peace of mind was the collectible cards, the access and then the super conference and then the access that comes along the way like different mini events for an island. all these you know working on it every day.

So um, you know meaningful comes in a lot of different ways for a far majority of the audience. it's already been Roi meaningful and now the collectible sits there as a added value for others. To your point, that maybe bought it at higher prices when all the hype I still got a lot of work for them, probably to be fulfilled because they didn't buy at the mint price. Yeah, and so you know that's something I need to work on forever I Guess I'm meaningful in the sense that it's an Nft, but Nfcs are the technology that enabled you to introduce the IP You mean the macro Nft got it right.

But the idea that we're out there buying and selling Nft Collectibles is not a mainstream idea, right? It was a very bubbly idea, but it's far from the mainstream when you think it goes mainstream 10 to 12. I Think that's yeah. I Think because because they're going to be about utilities, it's more like you know one of the analogies I used all the time was ticket steps. Yeah, yeah, like you go on eBay right now you will.

It's hit the ground. Every fish concert, every sporting event like just unlimited ticket stops. similar with Nfts. I think all tickets to Madison Square Garden over there in a decade are going to be Nfts.

and then if the LeBron of that day Victor the kid that's coming from France if he drops 100 points in that game, well that becomes a collective like to me, nothing changes the way people collect like. The reason I thought 99 would go to zero is because 99 of sports cards are zero. 99 of comic books are zero. The one percent yeah get real interesting Jordan Rookie Spider-Man Number one.

Um so I think 10 years I think VR you know what's interesting AI is gonna speed up a lot of the web 3 movement because I think it you know right now. back to like uh, using other people's IP green screen I think that's more of like a media function of the way reporting works. but I think what's happening with AI Creative and information. What's the source And a lot of big companies are starting to think about litigation to these AI companies.

but I think the blockchain proving Providence of source has a you know I've been fully, you know I'm in the lab I'm thinking about this I don't like saying out loud because I don't know if I'm right or wrong but I tend to like to talk when I fully know, but there's something that feels right there. It'll be interesting how it works. Yeah, we are doing us way more time than anticipated. Thank you so much! Thanks for having me talk soon!.