If I had eBay and Etsy as a junior high-end high school kid I Don't know if I would have graduated high school let alone thought about going to college. These you know, these kids know they can make a hundred thousand dollars a year in Creator revenue on these seven social media platforms. And why would they go work for a shitty job with a bad culture for 54 000 when they can do their art? whatever that may be for a hundred thousand, stay inner Nation How are you? I'm really excited about this. Uh, I'm just trying to mix up the guests talk about different things. Obviously this summer I've been very head down in the execution of the V Friends Nft project which has made me a little less loud about my collecting and my admiration and other things going on in the ecosystem. but today we changed that a little bit up. um, with a guest that I think will bring a ton of value and inspiration. and I'm actually genuinely curious because we haven't had a chance to chop up on how her project is going and what she's seeing and so that it's a real honor to have you here. you know I really admire you from afar. We haven't had the luxury of that many interactions just yet, but I've been really looking forward to this and I'm really happy for your success and your community. And I'm really glad you're on the show. Thanks thank you for having me. Thanks! Yeah, we haven't chatted uh I don't think um directly, but I've engaged with what you've done and Bacon was an absolute success. So yeah, yeah, it's a little dming here and there, but nothing too much. So let's get into this. Everybody gets to see us. Do it here. Why don't you for the uh Vayner nation and not only the V friends? Nation maybe give a little backdrop? Why don't you take the first two minutes and tell everybody who you are and what you're up to professionally? Sure. So I Am Betty Founder of Dead Fellas. Um, Dead Fellas is a brand. um, that was born from Nfts. We launched our first Nft collection um Friday the 13th of August 2021 and it's been an absolutely crazy ride ever since. Um, we focus on digital identity and extending into media and entertainment. We are storytellers, but primarily I see Nfts and the technology behind it as a proponent of social change and disrupting. Uh, you know everything from industry to how people value creators, so it's a really exciting space to work in. Take us all the way back a little bit to little Betty Like um, where'd you grow up? What kind of kid were you were you creative by? Nature Give us a little like comic Book number One origin story for a few minutes little Betty Okay, no one ever asks me this so that's cool. Um I was born in Yorkshire which is in the north of England Yep, Um, my dad is and was um, a musician. Uh, a thrash metal musician um my mom is also a creative um but also a um a nurse and so I was raised in a in a household that um while we you know we lived like in like normal society and everything but I was really pushed. um not pushed but like celebrated for Creative Endeavors Wow yeah, two parents that had so much Creative Juice that the concept of creativity was put on a pedestal the way that sports or academics or financial entrepreneurship might be in a different household. Not just that, but just just a natural extension of how you go through life like it was always present. you know so but also working outside of Um typically expected systems was something that was celebrated like. my mum was raised as a you know, devout Catholic but then kind of went against her as an adult and I got to be witness to that and and as well say my by by dating a thrash metal. Superstar yeah yeah yeah. so I was the kid with the cool parents um for sure it was. it was. it was good. um I've always been creative I've always been I think I've I had an experience as a kid where I I'd always be called bossy and um I know that's different for men, they you know celebrated for leadership whereas it's not the same experience for women and girls. but yeah I've always been creative I've always found myself can we can? Can we tap into that because it's really funny? You say that because I'm 47 and one of the great things you know I Always my mom was such my hero and continues to be yeah and I always viewed her as very strong you know and there was a lot of strong women in my Eastern European family. and I you know I always kind of took note of that in the 80s and 90s where Where to your point if you know if a woman entrepreneurially or in a school play or whatever. the setting was bossy was thrown around a lot and I remember in my brain thinking that that was like a good thing though I could see that it was being used as not as much of a good thing and you know Society has a long ways to go on a many magnitude of different issues, but it definitely has evolved, uh, you know, into a place where it's not as prevalent and universally accepted that that was a bad thing of being. you know, like and I see far more you know, girl, dads and and boss ladies a lot. it's there's been a shift, but you're saying that for you, it was always like a part of like I'm a leader right? Yeah, I've always felt that and I've always gravitated to that and I've always LED with that. So um, it's always been a part of my experience no matter what I do and I've done many different things I speak about that a lot to people. Um, the idea. especially with Gen Z right now where they're um, you know they're seen as lazy or they don't want to work I I Feel like I've always kind of gone through life like how they go through life now where they just lead with like what they want to do and they identify what works for them and what doesn't work for them. Um I think that gen Z are just, you know, disenfranchised with the fact that the systems in place are not. they're never going to work for the people. They also know Betty that they have options exactly like like yeah, like I identified that too, right? like you could like you would you know with you know. For me, for example, if I had eBay and Etsy as a junior high and high school kid, I don't know if I would have graduated high school let alone thought about going to college. These you know, these kids know they can make a hundred thousand dollars a year in Creator revenue on these seven social media platforms. And why would they go work for a shitty job with a bad culture for 54 000 when they can do their art. whatever that may be for a hundred thousand? Yeah, I Think the definition of success is also completely different now. Um, you know we were taught to follow a path where you've got these: Milestones You have to reach by a certain age and you know you have to get married, have a house, have two kids. All of this like fly up the corporate ladder, but like there is no lighter for most people and for most people like home ownership isn't a realistic goal when working within those systems. So yeah, I think totally agree. My being encouraged to, uh, to not subscribe to that as a kid has set me up well because I still don't and I applaud anyone that doesn't now because I think it's all rubbish, needs to be burned to the ground and started I Couldn't agree more. I I'm such a fan of that. I I was ridiculed for lack of a better word on my points of view about college and it's Roi 15 years ago and it's been fascinating to watch people come around to at least the conversation that one size doesn't fit all across many things. Speaking of which, um, what do you think was one of the most essential? This is so many parents listening right now have Creative Kids and so many kids who are 14, 12, 9, 17 are listening right now. Do you have a signature moment in your creative path before? let's say 21 that stands out as like I got this affirmation or I got this feeling in my tummy like was there something is Yeah, please tell me I do uh I was 19 years old always yeah I was 19 years old and my best friend died of cancer and it was something that I think many of us will share as an experience whether you have already or you will in the future. Um but to me I was in fact yeah I was so I was at University I was studying biomed I was good at it. like good. really good doing really well. um but him dying kind of threw me into like thinking about life and what like do I want to work in a lab am I meant to be in a lab am I meant to do this Do I really truly enjoy it or am I just describing to something that I feel like I should do because I am someone that hits myself against myself and I want to achieve and I want to you know hit goals that I I set myself so it was. It was this internal Battle of like do I continue have I wasted all this time doing this um and then it really introduced me to the idea of the wasted time fallacy which has also in my life completely where Um, you know there's this idea where if you've invested a certain amount of time into something, you must finish everything I love that. Um, but it's really not the case. Correct you know I I identified that I had learned so much from my time um, studying that and that it wasn't a waste. it's just set Beyond a different path and I've I've kind of lived by that rule ever since where I just go through my life and I experience things and I take what I need to take and I learn what I need to learn I apply it to the next thing and it's brought me where I am today and you know some days I'll be working and I'll be like oh, That kind of brings me back to like five years ago or seven years ago where I had this experience and so I do talk about that a lot because I feel like it encourages people that maybe feel like they've wasted too much time. They're in their 30s like I have three kids I'm 32. like I've written so many different jobs and done so many different things and you know life is not linear and neither is the professional path that you're on. So cheers for that! I love you for that. Tell me. Tell me the couple of things that led to Deb fellas from your perspective, like the things you were into as a kid or something that made you realize what was brewing in Nft land. If I asked you the three or four ingredients before before that faithful you know Friday the 13th. What do you think were the watershed moments that led you to I'm gonna create this in that Ft form Um, the first was being introduced to Nfts in general I saw it and was immediately it was like a light bulb moment. like I know a lot of people need convincing and need to learn more and for me it was like holy this is like so disruptive. This is what I've been waiting for I have been working a lot with um I mean I ran a creative production agency prior to Dead Fellas with Um Psych who is my co-founder and husband. Um, but we I mean you know working in Creative Industries creative work is not valued. it's always a fight. Um, it just is what it is. and so I had come from that space. I was working a lot with social justice and Community Management and Community organization Grassroots funding Mutual Aid All of that and I just felt like I was fighting a losing battle. um I was getting pretty disenfranchised with everything, especially in the pandemic. and then when I discovered web3 it was like oh my God like this is so different. this is so new. Like we can build something completely new that benefits so many more people. The change can be so much bigger. What does this mean for everything? Like it was just like an explosion, just a catalyst of like what was what was the first? What was the first thing? You? What was the first thing you saw that got you there. Do you remember the first thing I saw? Yeah, I do um, it was my husband um has been in a digital Art Collective for many years and uh, because he's been an artist a digital artist forever and so uh, he's showed me uh, one of his friends that I've known for a long time, uh was minting their work and I was like well what does that mean and he's like well this is what it means and show me the whole thing and like I was like well, what happens with royalties what happens with ownership like it was just that like that was it I was like oh my God and then where could that go immediately I was like, well, artwork but then education and real estate and like, what else can happen and um, so I just yeah I threw myself into it. Then I became aware of the profile picture thing. um, that movement and I was so fascinated and I always have been fascinated with um, identity and sense of self and how people find that within certain places. and um, especially with the internet, right? So like within Web 2 web and web one, how that has transcended and how digital identity and Community has formed around those ideas. I I was like blown away again for the people that are listening because I know some people in this audience have less context to the term. how do you define in layman's terms digital identity? Go a little bit into that because I think people will enjoy that. So, identity in itself. Uh, digital identity I see is just an extension of actual physical identity. like how you present yourself to the world, how you communicate who you are, what you love, um, how you feel what you stand for. All of those things. And I think that the things that we curate around our life, um, are extensions and tools of extending that message, right? So like I'm wearing this shirt, not it's an intentional choice I Like that, but I'm also sending a message about who I am what? I Like all of those things, digital identity is just an extension of that and we're living increasingly more in digital spaces. Um, and so it's an important tool. I Guess to to have an impact in the world, to form communities, and to to send out messages and and all of that. So no, no different than wearing a Clash t-shirt in 1979. In London walking around you were saying to other people, hey, I'm into this and literally somebody on the tube could be like yo yo and you know next thing you know, best friend, married acquaintance wherever it may go. This has been going on forever as we spend more time digitally. Same thing, that's it. social signaling. That's right in any context. That's right. Um, and so I was seeing that happen with these profile pages and I was like, well, that that's amazing Um, but I couldn't I couldn't engage myself because I didn't feel like anything represented me I didn't feel aligned with anything that I saw. and what was this was this like May June July of that year it was like April May April May So you're looking around and you're like all right, not that you're like all right Gary's little Doodles that like you're looking around and you're like you're looking for something for you I don't see anything. Let me make something that represents what I'm feeling in my soul. That's it. I Love it I Love it. There is nothing that represents a spectrum of gender. There's not nothing that represents a different side of culture. Um, nothing feels like Punk enough. Sorry Crypto punks, but you know, yeah, no Crypto punks work to your point. Very basic in their nature. When I think about that, Bella is like you want you know now uh, understanding your background. definitely not Punk enough for you with a dad like that? No, and you know what though to to just segue slightly please. Played a really pivotal role in Psych and I entering the space in a way that they facilitated So many connections. So many people in the OG Punk Community Um, you know gave us our first opportunities or introduced us to the next people. one. Punk Um, the last Punk 999 um she was one of our Devs online and she's still a lot of contracts for us like I love that Yeah and oh to me that Community I mean to me it's been the the only project that I feel like I can go to sleep and know for a fact that in 40 years when I'm an older man and talking about this that will definitely be there is Punks because of history and then why I want you on the show everything else I do now is who do I think are the human Tour de forces that punks will play on history and what it meant the 5 to 15 that are most meaningful 40 years from now whether they're artists like ex, copying people and many others uh Amber Victoria knows people or projects like yours and mine will completely be based on the humans ability to navigate the waters over the next 40 years. But to your point I even just listening to you talk about it I know what it meant to me just even like sending to them talking Discord and like and you know especially the people that were actually there in 17 and 18 and 19. it's really kind of cool you know? Yeah, it really felt like they when I entered the space like I didn't really have a space for me I didn't feel like there was anything that I could buy into where I felt like I belonged and so I would go to Twitter spaces and I would join conversations with people that I thought um, you know would welcome in and they did. and so I would encourage anyone listening that wants to engage. just just engage like there is a space for you always. But um yeah, punks were just back then I saw them as stewards of the space. um, you know, proponents of knowledge and of of all of it I'm not sure how I'm not sure it's the exact same now. like things change of course, not the OTP ones for sure. I just anyway. yeah, it was great. So I uh I went along that journey and um, injected everything that we love into Dead Fellas I wanted people to feel nostalgic and have an emotional reaction an emotional connection I wanted all of the traits that we had to be gender ambiguous so that during the generative process, you know you could go to the collection and you could find anything, uh, anything had the possibilities to be you. You know it's like no matter who you were. yeah and um and it's worked really well. and how'd your name? how'd you name it? how did I name it? Yeah, it I wish I had a better answer for this, but it literally all the whole thing came as just a lightning bolt in my brain and I have these moments constantly all day, every day and I'm one of those people that um, you know I just constantly buy URLs and I'm like it's hot. It's hard to contain ideas sometimes and you know you have to discern what idea is worth. Um, when did you? when did you so you're looking around April May I don't see anything that speaks to me I'm gonna make something because I'm capable of it and then during that window a name like that comes to your mind. you go do what I do because I'm very similar. You go to whatever registry site you go to, you see that it's available. maybe it wasn't available with the S you do it with the Z right and you just kind of register it. Yeah, um what happened yeah, what happened was I we did all that um I had I knew I wanted to do something and so it took me. It was about a week, two weeks and I didn't I when I'm trying to think of an idea I don't post ideas I just do my typical thing and I'll like let them come. Yep. so I was doing things that I liked to do I was listening to music I like to listen to I was watching movies So like um, and the idea of like spooky kind of Macabre things um, and societal fascination with that has traveled through time right? So there's like Grimm's Fairy Tales R.L Stine's Goosebumps books like it goes through Everyone loves it. Everyone loves to be a little bit spoofed. Yeah, it just it is. um zombies. Um since that was brought into pop culture has just been a thread that is constant. It's just a constant. It's a classic. like you know, part of of that whole thing. and so that winner. As soon as I looked onto that, it was like boom done. I've got the idea transparently. I did not register the domain right away because I didn't have enough money. So I have to. um why? Because it was for sale. it wasn't like 20 bucks. it was already taken. it was already taken ing Yeah, Yep, yep you didn't want to show your hand, you didn't want to show your hand I want to show my hand So I was like okay I'm gonna be careful about this. Um so I was going to a barbecue with my friends that day and um I just like took my friend to the side and I'm like hey um I just need like 500 bucks. This is gonna sound insane but I can and try to explain the whole thing and he was like um look I have no idea what you're talking about but yeah she'll do it and when he was like blown the away um once it all became what it became right? Yeah that's so cool. yeah but how long how long did it take you to kind of from start you know, pen to paper quote unquote to like when you had your minting day. Um, um I'm gonna say it was a couple of months of solid hard work. So again, we were running an agency. So right. A lot of you have clients so many and we were trying to do a lot of the work ourselves because pandemic times and housing crisis times and all of that in Australia. We were also in lockdown with three kids. Um, so it was just really. it was chaotic. It was disgusting. Chaos. Like it was absolutely so. That means there was a lot of 9 P.M to two in the morning at the time. Um, so 6 a.m every day I would get up. we would start immediately and then we would work all the way until about 2 A.M and then get up again at 6am and that was like every single day. So he would be working I would be doing treats with him on Twitter on Facebook like going hard every single day. Betty did you did you? Given that you'd been around, you know, kind of the creative field, getting a sense for you, knowing a little bit about you through other people's eyes that I respect. Did you have a similar thing that I had when I was going through it with Be friends. Did you kind of know it was going to work I knew it was going to work before I even launched it. Yep. and I I still know exactly where I'm going and it's like it sounds honestly. especially this is coming from a woman's voice. It sounds conceited and I do I initially when I would communicate that it it's not received in the same way. Um, like Confidence from a woman is is received very differently and only by insecure and unthoughtful. Absolutely, It doesn't make any less. uh, annoying to receive. Well, you know if if to to Value someone's opinion who would take it differently from you than me would would be the mistake that you're making in that scenario. That's exactly it. And so I have to my experience in this space I'm very well aware is different and that is navigating everything from conferences to Um I've literally everything because I know this because the founders that I speak to and I speak to Founders all day every day are primarily men and so the the comparison of experience is there every single day. However, um I am built for this and so it doesn't faze me at all. Um, good. It just is what it is. And I feel like honestly, buddy, that is. that is anybody who's coming to you with energy that is completely replicated on them. Looking at you differently from because of a gender situation is just such a dramatically bigger indicator on them than you like. Look, Look, I'll tell you how I say that as a as a male. it's because I'm 47 and I got really lucky with a singular life experience that is now different and we touched on it earlier. Yeah, my entire life from 14 to 30 I was judged because I was an F student when I tell you nobody on earth besides my mother. hence why I talked about what I talked about earlier. all of them thought I had teachers Mrs stats if you're out there I still remember this and I don't call out your name as a negative because you were actually the sweetest lady she said from a place of love to me, she said you're going to be a garbage man. She wasn't trying to be mean to me. she was trying to tell me that you need to try at this because if you don't your life will be ruined And it was unbelievable. In America in the 80s and 90s how much your grades were a complete indicator to how people interacted with you. Yeah, it really was the same in the UK growing up. um, and then in Australia the school system was so horrific that it was not. It's not even worth mentioning. Um, and so anyway nonetheless I know we're getting on a tandem. Let me ask you this because I don't want to run out of time. A lot of people who are listening are very aware that like there was the craziness that you and I lived through of the pricing last year. obviously there's been a heavy recorrection. I'm sure you have plenty of people, both your partners in business, your friends and acquaintances, everybody around you. When somebody says, well, what now with Nfts like like I listened very carefully how you positioned it. You know that that's how I You may know that that's how I think about be friends too these toys and Licensing and cartoons and movies. And but when your most cynical friends who adore you, let me say this sentence carefully. Cynical friends who adore you say to you like, was it a fad what now? Are you okay? You know, Are you okay? Are you gonna make it? How do you? How do you answer the current energy of this little moment we're in in this forever game of the Nft technology infrastructure. I I'm gonna be so fine. Um, what has happened is we are in this weird situation where we're building some things so, um, structurally sound on like in a in a ball pit in one of those kids ball pits where it's like it just shifts all the time. The bed of cryptocurrency is wild. We know this. Anyone that's like been trading for years knows this is up and down. Up and down. You can't conflate the value of culture that's being born around a brand. and around you know the people that are engaging with that. With the value of, um, a turbulent currency, It's a fusser of it for sure because it was. you know, in the way, utilizing blockchain technology, we're not um, correct. focusing our developments on the movement of the occurrence. Well, it's it's You know what? I tell a lot of people is you think all Nfts are Beanie Babies You don't realize that it's stuffed animals. It's a forever thing. Of course there's Beanie Babies within stuffed animals. But people, people see one project go from this to that, or to your point, Ethereum. From this to this, and they don't understand that there's a when you and I think Nft. we think the whole macro thing. stuffed animals. When people that haven't dug in yet, think about it. They think beanie babies like it's a fad. No, no, there's fads within it. but like 99 of video games don't end up becoming Super Mario either. Yeah, so I agree. I Get it before we run out of time because we're kind of quote unquote at time because I'm getting pushed here in my day-to-day job. Um, what did we not touch about Comma? I Really want a lot of the audience, both the V friends and the Vayner people to get to know you and your projects and your creativity and the positive light you're bringing to the space? Where can people find you? What did we not touch on in this short period of time together that you do want this Mass audience to know about? Um, Okay so you can find me on Twitter I'm Betty Underscore nft I'm on Instagram Betty.dfc I'm just Dead Fellas is the brand on everything Deadfellas.io You can go to the website and there is like News Press podcast Whatever. There's so much to learn from there you can get some I've spoken for many hours indeed. Yeah, I Think that just Dead Fellas in general. Um, we are. We are proponents of culture and a social change and we are disrupters by Nature So um, we will challenge Um structures and systems and have fun doing it. Building culture and empowering people to create content using Rip. I Love that Betty I continue to root for you very heavily I Was really looking forward to this. If I could ever be a help to you offline, please ping me. Thank you so much continued health and success and all that. Thank you right back at you Cheers.