Work from home is incredibly challenging. Building culture remotely is impossible. It's very hard. Attention is the number one asset.

The theme of this podcast is about rapid response and you are like the epitome of the person who runs to the new with Great Gusto and energy. I'm curious what rapid response means to you and what you're responding to now. I I Think it means opportunity I Think it means curiosity I Think it means truth, You know I'm fascinated by people's inability to get out of no culture. You know to put their head in the I'm fascinated by putting your head in the sand.

It's what led me to discovering emotional intelligence. You know, for years I was a public figure. Speaking of like, here's an opportunity, Here's an opportunity. Here's an opportunity.

I Would wonder why people close to me, let alone the general audience wouldn't act on it. and it led me to realizing that people insecure or lack self-esteem or or really struggle with people's judgment or have these poor relationships with themselves. You know it's funny when you speak about rapid response. I Think it means someone who lacks fear.

You know because the nature of running fast to something new is potentially scary. You may fail. You may waste your time, you may get burnt. Um, but for me, it's it's subconscious.

It's all. I Really know and and that's not a bad thing to to waste your time. I Mean you're not really wasting your time? Well, that's that's my point. Like so many my friends are like you spent 30 hours digging into that hypothesis.

Your time has become so valuable. Why are you doing that? I'm like because if I write once every 45 times, it fully pays for everything else. I think people are incredibly good at Academia but not good at actual life and so, um, you know I don't To your point I Don't see it as waste of times. Things I've learned going down rabbit holes became data points in context to other moments of going down rabbit holes that allowed me to either bail early pattern recognition or triple down in an opportunity.

And so you know I'm uh, I really I Really don't know how a CEO or entrepreneur um, sees the world in any other way I Feel like that's their responsibility I'm very empathetic to why a CFO or or other Executives in business context. don't do it. Um, but you know I think it's funny. The the whole framework of this makes me think about Comfort Fear self-esteem insecurity.

Those are the things that pop up in my mind when I hear it. You've got a new book project. Yes, day trading attention. You've done six business books before this, right? So why was this a rabbit hole that you decided to go down? It's the biggest conversation I See, that's Universal Whether you're a nonprofit, Whether you're running for mayor, Whether you are running a small small business, whether you're the CEO of a big company a Creator an influencer.

Everyone is trying to figure out how to create demand. Yeah, right. Yeah, Like everyone's you know when I when I say everyone's selling something I don't see that as a negative I mean everyone's trying to communicate Something That Matters to them I Think selling is very good when you believe in what you're selling. I think if you're part of a nonprofit curing a disease that is incredibly good selling and I also don't begrudge someone who's trying to sell lollipops I did that in sixth grade.

Like everything's allowed as long as you're doing it the right way. And so um, I believe that the world of marketing and communication has made a very aggressive turn and I think people are struggling and wasting money on traditional and digital. You know I don't think you know I don't think this is a digital versus traditional thing I Think that I know because I liveit it every day. You can waste an ungodly amount of money on influencers on Facebook on Instagram on Tik Tok on Spotify Um, just as easily as you can in a newspaper or billboard or radio.

Yeah! and so I think the craft of being great at storytelling, running ads, creating content for the modern internet, being prepared for the Arvr world of the next decade. The framework that makes sense to me is day trading attention. meaning whether it's a Super Bowl ad which I think is underpriced for Fortune 500 or it's a carousel ad on, you know, Instagram or LinkedIn or it's an emerging influencer on Tik Tok to make content for your local car wash business or SAS business that selling to Fortune 500 companies on LinkedIn I think the nuances of communication and marketing have become so profoundly challenging that most people are really struggling and I'm very fortunate to be sitting in the eye of the storm. and I always get most excited when I think I'm writing a book that is going to lead to tens of thousands of emails of thank you and I've written a couple of those and I know what they feel like versus the other ones I've written that have less thank yous I think this one's going to be a big one I think it's a follow-up to Jab Jab Jab Right Hook which was a big book that I wrote in 2013.

That said, this is how you do content on social media. This one is probably the nerdiest book I've ever written. It's like even I'm a little worried that it may not be as commercially successful because it is a little text Booky On the flip side, that's what might make it very commercially successful. So it's I Definitely pushed myself to go further into like going behind the the cloak of like what I do for a living What we do for a living.

Why a lot of things work for me I'm proud of that I What what I mean by that. is? Someone said something to me six or seven years ago that really felt nice. It was like I remember it hit me right in my chest. she didn't know me very well.

She hung out in this business meeting and then went out it and she said you're incredibly intellectually generous and I uh I was very flattered by that and I feel like this book is intellectually generous I feel like I'm writing a book of The Secret Sauce that makes most my stuff work and I'm excited that that people are going to take that baton and be able to build for themselves. And and if I'm hearing I mean there's so many ways to reach people now so many more ways than ever. And it sounds like you're saying that people feel like oh I have to cover all the bases as opposed to looking at each one of as a Marketplace and figuring out what the right opportunity is for you for your brand for your message at that moment. period that that if you're if you're like, there's just so many examples I can give if you are a florist.

Instagram Feels incredibly natural because a lot of people are there, but it's also hard right now. the supply and demand of attention on Instagram makes it challenging. Yeah! Meanwhile, I know the cliche, the average the typical florist is not thinking about link LinkedIn Meanwhile, LinkedIn is acting like Facebook in 2015. Where on LinkedIn If you post about floral arrangements or why you're a good option for a corporate floral or just a one-off Valentine's Day thing.

It is more likely that you will get organic reach on LinkedIn than than Instagram I Know that 99.9% of the people listening to this podcast would not believe that to be true, but I know it to be true and there's a hundred other things I'm thinking about or know to be true. And so I'm going to use this book to lay that out but also get people into the right mindset, which is there's attention and there's filling that attention. This podcast MH Everyone who listens to it is going to listen to me right now. The variable of success for me and for you is the words that come out of my mouth.

The creative is the variable. If I give sharp insights. If I give things that bring people value, they will feel better towards me, right? So I think people are thinking about all these social networks as distribution, but not thinking about filling them with something that actually works I believe that people are mainly mailing in the content. It's inherently selfish.

Look at me, Follow me, buy from me. It's incredibly repetitive I Look at Brands and people every day. They're saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over that's grounded in selfishness. And so I don't think people are strategic I don't think they understand the science around the art of making a picture or video work for you in.

YouTube YouTube Shorts Facebook Facebook Reals Facebook Messenger WhatsApp WhatsApp Channel Instagram Channel these are new things broadcast channels, the carousel ad the video the real versus the regular post LinkedIn versus Twitter Twitter versus Snapchat Snapchat Discovery is where a lot of creators should be making content, but they're only making it on Instagram and Tik Tok So in a lot of ways the books I've been writing for the last almost two decades I feel like this is the three one course and um I'm really you probably can sense it I'm really proud of it. It was really harder for me I always am so ahead of things that I can just spit it but this one I wanted to like re like I'm dreaming of someone right now who's listening to this post the book coming out, buying the book on Amazon and a week later having like 40 highlights in it and Pen like I know I'm up to something. The two books that have you know crush it which really put me on the map right. you know that book and Jab Jab Jab right hook they it acted differently than the other books.

All my books have done well. they've all been New York Times bests sellers but I'm still getting emails about. you know, jab Ja Jab right hook. Even though a lot of the content is not as timely and so I felt like I needed to do the updated version and the more advanced version, but still I've always been the kind of Communicator that's more of the average Joe So because I record my books in audio form I don't think I'm going to lose people in the 301 this and so I'm excited I'm really excited about it.

So an attention question to ask you about please. So uh, Taylor Swift yes Travis Kelsey yes have changed the NFL's business? Yes, without the NFL being a part of its plan at all. That's right. Like what is the attention message from I Know you're a big NFL fan, so like, is there a message in that? Yes, of course there is.

It's actually one of the biggest parts of the book, which is that everybody on Earth underestimates pop culture. What happened with Taylor and Kelsey is they're cross-pollinating their platforms. So if you're a mechanic in Detroit like I said in this post on social, you're not thinking about hitting up the Thai restaurant down the street to do a piece of social media content. I Know that's true today, yet that's the kind of left field post that will get people's attention and so what? I See there is What do I think about pop culture I think it's one of the most significant currencies on Earth What if you're lucky enough to have an employee that works for you that's first name is Travis and another one that's first name is Tayor.

Like literally, you're a law firm Travis Johnson Taylor Smith Maybe they're both guys because Taylor is obviously a name that can go. either way, you can easily use the micro moment of the infatuation of our society to do something clever and silly. What people don't realize is that little clever video on Instagram that only got 90 views. One of those 90 views is someone who's actually considering to hire an attorney and they actually like the fact that you were a little silly and not buttoned up and you made them feel more comfortable to reach out to you to work with your Law Firm or your dentist's place or your like.

I People are very linear. They don't realize how big pop culture is and how they can factor into their boring business. I Had a I had a um gentleman reach out to me who asked literally I used a concrete cement business in one of my analogies in a piece of content, he literally owned a asphalt business. He literally started to make Tik Toks even though he thought it was the wildest craziest thing he'd ever heard and it literally has doubled his business.

An asphalt seller like guy that comes and redo your driveway made a couple Tik toks. One went decent, another one went viral, and literally if I recall properly, the email. A business that was doing $800,000 a year servicing a local area I think he was in Wisconsin is now doing 2.5 Mill he he The tears were coming through the email, but most people who are listening to this podcast don't who are in a Beab or like a different kind of business are not thinking how Tik Tok can work for them right? And pop culture doesn't necessarily mean that you need to have a your celebrity endorser. Correct, you're You're playing off of what the conversations that are going on.

It's like being good at a cocktail party, right? Think of this as your social media marketing. You go out tonight and it's a fundraiser of your local local PTA or the school or or it's the the Banquet for the high school basketball team? Are you the kind of person that comes to that event and you're enjoyable to talk to and have a circle around you or are you in the corner by yourself? The reality is being an introvert and not being comfortable in that is incredibly appropriate and awesome. As a business, you'd like to think that you're trying to Market and get business. And so to me, there's so much more permission for creativity.

Than People allow themselves. But you know, like people continue to like, wear their suit and tie in their LinkedIn profile and like they they they don't understand the room is what. I Al Ultimately think I think like you take the most stuffed up person you know literally I want everyone to close their eyes and just think about like the most kind of buttoned up, stuffy, rigid person you know I promise you if that person goes to. Las Vegas Right now with their best friends from college for a weekend, they're going to be a different version of themselves than you know them.

and I think businesses and brands have more permission to be contextual to the room they're Distributing the content in when I make Facebook content I'm thinking about parents because I know the demo is going to be older. Those are going to be different videos that I'm putting into Tik Tok where I know they're going to be youngsters, The words and the videos and the slang and everything I say and do is different yet I Believe most people are just making a video and then pushing them out on these channels and expecting for it to succeed. They think of it as distribution I Think of it as a place you have to be contextual to win the room because it's a conversation before it even gets into a conversation before it even gets into a conversation. You can't win when you're a fish out of water as a communicator.

If you don't know the room, you will lose If you go, give a commencement speech to a very conservative college and you sling unlimited liberal propaganda, it won't land with those kids and vice versa. If you're a Jets fan like I am and you go to Boston and you on the Patriots the whole time, you're going to lose some people, you've got to know the room and you're raising capital From a VC firm that is very buttoned up that's a different presentation to an angel investor who they were all entrepreneurs and they built it themselves. If you do not know the slang, you will be out of place and so I I believe before it becomes a conversation my friend. If you do not know what the picture and video needs to look like at 3:34 p.m.

on a Monday in LinkedIn which is mainly consumed by people who are at work, think about all the psychology goes into this: I'm posting different content when I know you're at work than when I'm posting on the weekend and knowing you might be skimming your LinkedIn real quick while you're catching up on work or you're at your kids baseball game and you're bored and you're just looking at your LinkedIn like I reverse engineer the psychology of the room. the psychology of the person in the room at the time that they consume the content. That level of thought besides thinking what the thumb nail looks like, besides thinking what the first 3 seconds of the video has to be to even keep you to consume it. this is a level of Science in day trading attention that I believe 99% are not executing on in Social and there in lies the opportunity and the vulnerability.

All right I Want to ask you about something else can I ask you about V friends please I am fascinated by V friends thank you! This started at least when I first saw it as like Nft and then Collectibles and toys and clothing and now there was a Halloween float I saw you were on TV on a Halloween float like what? what? what is be friends is it like is it a promotional vehicle? Is it like the next Pokemon or Disney like much more number two I um I'm loudly and quietly trying to build Sesame Street meets Pokemon and I say loudly and then quietly when I first launched it nft summer all you know the Gary ve of how I do things I brought awareness to it quietly to your point when I'm building out a Halloween parade float for New York City's Halloween big Bash I didn't overly promote that in my channels I did it because I knew hundreds of thousands of people on the street were going to see the float and we're going to hand out chachis and cards and shirts and I wanted to see organically what it was going to do I'm working on YouTube kids I have a kids book coming out next year I believe I'm 47 soon to be 48 I believe that you and I benefited from the content we consumed as a kid on television. not fully. There was plenty of silly stuff, but even if you go back to the 80s when Gi. Joe did its cartoon, it had a message at the end.

when He-Man did its cartoon, it had a message at the end Sesame Street I will tell you when I started this I thought I was building Disney Now I know I'm building Sesame Street Why? Because as I've been on this journey I don't think I understood or gave enough credit credit and even though I follow pop culture, I'm incredibly impressed and humbled by what Jim Henson's agenda was I think he had great intent. Fraggle Rocks Brief: When they tried to create it, the brief was: stop War What greater Mission could you have I as Gary Vee am a character I know who I am but in all of my bravado and competitiveness and loudness and cursing. and Jersey if for the ones that have looked closer, I'm really pushing empathy and patience and kindness and there Nice Guys Finish First And there is a way to build a big Empire but doing it in a kind way and we need more compassion and real leaders don't yell at people, they they capture the stress and they treat their people. You build up people and you play long and life should not be transactional.

I Want to win I Like this is why I say Pokemon meets Sesame Street I Also believe we've lost our way in some of our warmth I Think it is bad to give kids eighth place trophies I Don't think it teaches them about life I Think we've over coddled kids. We've created entitlement I think I believe there's a lot of anxiety I have thousands of under 25y old employees or under 30 I believe a lot of them don't have enough self-esteem because they've been overc coddled because everything's been taken care of themselves. So using politics red and Blue v. Friends is purple I Want to teach the world about purple I Think that I think the competitive clown I want to make him very famous and I want people to care about him but he as a character is going to teach kids like winning and losing is good and like when you lose, you can learn from that and like.

And by the way, if you're seven and you lose, when you you cry when you lose, that's not bad. It's actually good when parents say what are you crying for. This doesn't matter for a seven-year-old who's got wiring of being competitive and ambitious I Promise you, it does matter I promise you, it matters. And I don't think we should eliminate that from kids.

We, you know. And I think we haven't found our equilibrium in modern parenting. So Be Friends is a collectible storytelling platform that I hope in 30 years will be. Uh, in the conversation with the Marvels and the Pokemons and the Hello Kitties and the Sesame Streets I Want to build out these characters accountable Ant will teach kids and parents that accountability matters.

If you blame the school for your kids' problems or social media for your kids problems, you're not setting them up for success. You know. patient. Panda will teach people that patience is how you actually win.

Everybody wants it now now now, which makes them shortcut, which is why people don't achieve what they actually are capable of. So what is? Be friends. It's an intellectual property and as as an entrepreneur, like you said, at one point you thought it was Disney Now you think it's it's Sesame Like when when you started this was it just Nfts. Like did you see the journey and how do the journey even if you look at my earliest content I Knew Nfts was a moment similar to after school television.

I Viewed the Nft Summer don't forget I was making videos that said 99% of Nfts are going to zero I Knew what we were in, which is what Web 1 was in in 9798 I Knew the Internet was going to be big and the internet stocks and the internet companies were overvalued by short-term greed. Same with Nfts, but the technology is real digital. Collectibles will be a part of everyone's life and that's what Be friends are. They are digital Collectibles But I also want physical Collectibles the comic book? The trading cards.

It's A it's a 360 figal IP Fortnite is played as a video game digitally. but people buy Fortnite trading cards and fortnite comic books and fortnite hats. and I mean you know Disney was digital If you really think about it, it was. It wasn't really digital, but like when Disney came out those that was A that was Cinema but you watched it on TV Steamboat Willie on a screen later in movie theaters and then television.

But you bought physical items. So for me, Nft Hysteria A was an opportunity to create the original collectible. You know it's really cool. like just like owning the first comic book from Spider-Man Vfriend series 1.

Nft is the original digital collectible, but now we're expanding it and I have a real purpose behind why the characters exist and it's to scale me. I have done well and have massed a nice audience. There's a lot of people that value me, but there's a lot of people that won't consume me. I don't fit the way I don't look the part for them.

There are plenty of people who don't like cursing I curse when I communicate. That eliminates me. Um, I'm very hyper. some people like a calmer Soul So my V friends characters my 250 plus V Friends character will allow me to put more love and kindness and accountability and hard work into the world.

and that's my plan. All right. Um I don't know how much more time can I two more minutes? Yeah yeah I Well you you mentioned the thousands of uh young people who work for you there and I'm curious about the cultural challenges of being a scaled business. Yes I know you've said like you don't want to be corporate, you know you are corporate without employees.

and I guess like how do you balance that and how does the sort of in office and out of office like work from Office impact that I know that's a lot to. oh there's a lot there. but I'll I'll bang it out. Um first of all, the way to not be corporate is not to be corporate.

To your point I On Vayer for everybody Vayner Media is a global advertising agency. Think Mad Men for 2024 you know we have 400 people in Asia 3 400 people in Europe 100 people in latam like this is a global ass company. This a big company we've been building. The way not to be corporate is not to be corporate.

Here's what I mean by that. as long as I continue to. for example, I sign off on every firing in the entire company Globally, there's not one person in this company that can be fired without me signing off because I'm scared that my leaders will do politics and corporate stuff, not human stuff. So as a checks and balances, I am literally the singular human being that has to sign off on any firing at Vayner Media not at Vayner X because there's eight companies and there's other CEOs and I give them that Latitude but at Vayner Media I'm the literally no one can be let go and by the way, 20% of the people that everybody else wanted to let go is not let go because I see something that feels corporate.

So I think that's just one of aund examples that you can. You don't have to be corporate if you make weird family business decisions like I do and I think it's more scalable than people think it's You've got to find your teammates around the office. There's a lot to it. Work from home is incredibly challenging.

Build building culture remotely is impossible. It's very hard. We do a lot on Virtual I as I sit here today being completely vulnerable I do not have all the answers. We're still in it I Don't want to be the old man that says walk home from I Used to walk home from school and like everybody to be in the office 5 days a week when I see plenty of wonderful things from work from home.

the work life balance I Like that people are seeing their kids more like I like a lot. On the flip side, it is very clear to me that the employees globally that are in the office are advancing past the ones that are not because they're winning on the biggest thing in an office, it's called osmosis. The osmosis you get from learning from senior people who've done it things. It's profound and so I'm incredibly challenged and led by this right now.

I'm very worried about doing the wrong thing by my employees who I'm not forcing to come into the office when I'm watching their reports eventually going to become their managers because we're going to grow on Merit And so it's a very challenging time for a lot of us leaders and figuring this out. But I Do believe my intent is in a good place I believe there are thousands of business owners out there that truly have good intent. It's not some philosophical emotional like I want everybody in the office or the other way around. and so as long as I'm not delusionally emotional or ideologically emotional, the reason we have not set a firm, firm black and white policy yet at Vayner X around work from home is I'm still thinking and I'm still watching and and but but yes, it is very hard to build community if everyone's virtual because I I Saw a video you did recently where you were kind of teasing a remote employee who was like I don't feel more connected and you were kind of like, well, that's the thing on a one toone basis I give the answers to employees and both directions.

Uh, literally. In the last couple weeks I've had both sides of the pillow of the conversation. one employee saying to me that they're stressed because they feel like they're underd delivering as a parent and I said take advantage of our policy don't come to the office as much and like pick up your kid at home and don't SCH like I'm I believe I don't need every like I want my employees to be happy and so I don't need them to be top performers I prefer it but you can't be a top performer if you're not happy. And so if this woman who I'm thinking of I pushed her very hard I'm like pick up your kid from school.

It's okay. like don't do meetings from 4:15 to 4:30 You're such a crazy worker. you're more than making it up. You're not ripping us off like you're not ripping your team off like do that.

and like in a week she had a like she was thrilled and I was like man, just that subtle tweak and obviously you saw that other piece of content. Yeah, when I'm sitting with an employee on Zoom and they're complaining that they feel disconnected and they've never been in the office in their two and a half years of working here. I'm like hey would have you and and it's not like they're in Ohio The person that I was referring to is literally 18 minutes from the office and has never been here I'm like of course you feel disconnected that's not on me, that's on you you know And so this goes back to accountability account. Um, the world has become infatuated with fingers.

We've become incredibly good at telling everybody what they're bad at and we are very bad at thumbs. We do not look at ourselves and so yes, this young man like we had a nice conver and I said it nicely I was like Hey brother I was like you're feeling disconnected cuz you're in your house by yourself all day. like come in the office a little bit like you got it. Lucky there's people slepping an hour and a half commuting here because they want to feel connected.

You're 18 minutes away on foot like you know and so um, and he took that at heart and he sent me an email and said I do feel it. thank you for saying that and like so you know it's always. It's back to purple. Yeah, the world is in fatuated with red and blue in every way, not just politically and I'm trying to continue to Champion for purple because I think that's where we find our happiness I Do think balance matters even in eating Trends It's complicated.

It's very complicated. but but being happy is worth fighting for. Like when everyone's say God that's hard I'm like it's worth fighting for. Don't you don't? Don't you want to have peace of mind? Aren't you tired of being anxious? Isn't it enough? of all the world is selling fear brother like the world is weaponizing fear and I think I think for someone like me and for I'll end with this cuz I'm running late I got to run but thank you for having me on.

for the people out there who are listening who feel happy I mean it like genuinely, you're in a nice place. Please take it on yourself as a responsibility to maybe start posting a little bit more about happiness. I Think the world is the people who are most hurt and unhappy are very loud and I feel the happy are staying in their inner circles and like just letting their little family in circle be happy I get a lot of ridicule a lot of judg I deal with a lot of for being loud and out there. but I do feel a sense of responsibility for um, pushing optimism, practical optimism Happiness joy because there's a lot of it in the world as well and Vs is how I'm going to scale that and um I'm up for the challenge.