Every second in the world, whether you're running for mayor trying to get money for your pta change, people's opinions on something persuade your kids to do something. No matter what you are trying to do in the world. The game of content and distribution is how the world works. The garyvee audio experience, hey everybody welcome to an episode of the garyvee audio experience.

I'm really excited because i haven't done a podcast with another human being next to me in what feels to be like two years, so i'm incredibly excited uh for our guest today. If you follow my content at a scary level, because it's maybe been a little while, but i would often be asked during q a call it five six seven years ago, before timing's tough, these days, uh about well gary. You just talked about this, but what brands are doing it right and at the time i was incredibly fascinated with a brand that i thought was doing influencer marketing on instagram as well as anybody i had seen, and i do a lot of watching all the time. Then now and forever, and so i started kind of just mentioning jim shark without really knowing whom or what again, if you really really know me legitimately, didn't even google it or look it up or went to the website just saw it in the flow and would Mention it several years later met uh.

Some of the key executives were in my office he's sitting in the background right now and then a little later uh met the gentleman that is with me now uh, who is the founder of the company ben? Why don't you uh? Why don't you introduce yourself to the leader nation, um yeah? No thanks, uh yeah! My name is ben francis uh, founder and now chief executive, jim shark um, jim sharks, fitness apparel brand. We were started, i guess, during the social era. Everything that we do is all about community um. When did you start the company uh? 2012.? So 2012? I was 19 years old.

I was just starting university at the time um, and so i as a kid i wanted to be a bodybuilder. So i would, i would massively admire a lot of the big bodybuilders over in california, and i wanted to essentially be like those guys, but i was never big enough. I just didn't: have the muscle mass so at that point, bought a sewing machine screen printer and started hand making the clothes myself uh fast forward to today and play with me a little bit there you go from i'm going to be arnold schwarzenegger to. I need a sewing machine yeah help me how many, how many put it together like you, you knew you wanted to start a t-shirt and a fashion brand.

No, it wasn't that so it was fitness, so i just loved fitness. So, as a kid wasn't, amazing at school wasn't misbehaved or anything just for whatever reason i just couldn't get on board with it. It didn't it didn't sort of it didn't resonate with me. I understand that um.

Then i joined the gym at 16. I think it was and then that taught me structure that school hadn't taught me. It taught me that i go to the gym five days a week. If i'm feeling tired happy whatever i still have to get it in and then that structure, i then applied it to school life, and then i did well at school.

I managed to get into university, which was massive okay, so as a kid completely fell in love with fitness, and that that was my, then ambition was to be involved in fitness. I wasn't actually at that point desperate to be involved in apparel or supplements or equipment, or anything like that. Just a macro i'm going to be in the fitness game, yeah and so talk me through. You know i had a very similar moment in my life.

It just happened at a very, very, very, very young age, whereas in third or fourth grade. I remember david johnson in my class like made me, miss seven tackles and he scored like nine touchdowns in backyard football, and i decided there that i was not going to be a new york jet football player, but i decided that i was going to buy them. Instead, and so i have when you just went through what you just said, it really clicked for me. I i smiled so you you love the discipline.

It makes all the sense you're totally infatuated. Are you at 17 and 18 trying to figure out? If you have the muscle mass to go into that world, or you kind of always knew and to be honest, i just knew because i think there was other people, my age, that were just so much far ahead um. So i knew at that point that i wasn't going to be able to do that now when i said the gym got me sort of doing well at school. It was at that point that then i started studying i.t and i learned how to develop websites and apps okay.

So at that point all the websites and apps that i was making it would always be around fitness. It would be either a little fitness forum or it would be a fitness iphone app and i ended up making. I think it was about six different apps and websites all centered around fitness before gymshark. Okay, then, basically none of those transacted none of them sold products and, to be honest, it was more of a almost challenge to myself.

Oh, how cool would it be to create something that would transact um? So i thought supplements because naturally, supplemental is the first place. People get it and at this point at this point, are you pretty astute to instagram? Are you posting there? Are you watching it? Are you living yeah, so instagram wasn't as big a thing back then. So this was like 2011 2012.. It was more.

Everything was on facebook. Facebook pages was like the thing. Youtube is obviously huge, yes um, so why i basically i went to. There was a mate of mine that actually worked at a supplement shop and i said to him right at the time i was working as a delivery driver at pizza, and i was earning about.

I think it was like four or five pounds an hour and i went to him and i said: can i buy some supplements off you because i'm making this website i want to sell supplements online. He basically said yeah i'll. Do you a deal and basically the minimum order was eight thousand pounds worth of supplements. I'd never heard about, let alone seen it right, so that was like completely off the cards.

So at that point i thought right. What i'll do is i'll drop ship supplements so load it up the website with hundreds and hundreds of different supplements. Somebody buy something i'll deliver it yeah exactly that, and basically you would make. I mean our first order.

It took a few months to get. First order was 50 pounds and i think one or two pounds was profit, but i'd achieved. My albeit very low goal of transacting in fitness online did that for a little bit and slowly realized that the margin just wasn't in dropshipping. It wasn't like a long-term model and that's when i was looking at people like arnold schwarzenegger, ronnie coleman looking at what they were wearing and i was actually buying product from the states and i'll never forget.

I was buying like these stringer tanks and they would come in and they would just drown me. It looks like i was wearing like my dad's dad's top as a kid right completely drowned me. So i thought right. Let's try and make our own, and it was at that point - sewing machine screen printer and started to hand make the product ourselves and when you say we so that was that was me and louis who's.

I co-founded the business with later on help from my brother as well and then some of our friends and then we sort of just started to hand make these products, and even though we put it on the website, we were almost just making it for one another. Because we were all in the gym every single day, um and over time. Basically i so as kids, especially in late teens, didn't watch loads of telling or didn't watch much tv. It was all youtube and all of my heroes were on youtube and because, at the time youtube was this new and upcoming thing.

I basically would send out the product to some of my favorite youtubers and again because youtube just wasn't a massive thing. They would look at the product and they would talk, and i ended up making friends with these guys over in california, in germany in the uk. Who would then give us feedback on the product and, like i said, just became friends um. We then sold more of this product online and we did better and better and better and um, going back to my sort of love for fitness.

I'm really fortunate, because in the in the area that i'm from which is in birmingham in the uk, one of the best fitness events in the world, they always had it it's an event called body power and as a kid i would always go every single year. We'd always go be like a pilgrimage for us and then in the period where jim sharp was first starting. I had like a massive gut feel to be at this event. I thought i don't know how, but jim sharp need to be at this event, because this is this was like this was the dream right.

Um went to the guy. That runs the show, i think it was. It was about three grand at the time for uh for an event, but we made revenue at that point, so i thought we had 12 months to pay for the three grand i'd be able to find it in a year so basically put down the order. We said we'd take a stand and over the next 12 months, just hand-made the product and save the money for the event.

As the event was coming round, it was in may by sort of start of the following year. So, a few months before the event we had enough money to fly over these youtubers and influencers to the event build a good stand, take product to the event and basically the brand just blew up at this event. No one else was doing it. We were a completely open shop in a world that was very much like selling products selling products selling product we were like come in here.

Talk to us meet the guys, the athletes. If you want to buy a product, you can yeah and if you're not don't worry and by the way after the event, we'd all go down and lift together whether you were a general fitness person that wanted to buy the product an athlete one of the the Small number of staff members and what we inadvertently did was started to build a community just at the grassroots level by going and lifting with people. After this event, and then prior to that event, we were selling about two or three hundred pounds a day worth of product, so it was like four or five hundred dollars a day, then after the event, um. Sorry through the event.

All of all of these lists that we were doing were posted on facebook, which facebook and youtube, which is where everyone was at the time and the brand started to go viral because i'd actually turned. I i couldn't. I couldn't both have the website on and at the event, because all that all the product was made, so i turned the website off that weekend came back after the weekend having gone viral on facebook and youtube and in the first half an hour after the website Went live. We did 30 000 pounds worth of revenue from two or three hundred pounds a day, and then that was when, and that was in 20.

2012. 2013. That's when it really started to move. So it makes sense that when instagram, because instagram was starting was happening but like at the beginning, so instagram was coming up then - and here i don't know what it was like where you were.

It was very much like the sort of i don't know what you call them like indie kids. It was almost like super super filtered, like everyone had everywhere, very very hipster, brooklyn san francisco yeah. That was the first year of it for sure, and then we we just thought you know what it seems cool we just i we started using it. I was more on facebook at the time and we moved on to instagram and we just started posting on instagram and was the company always called jim shark? Yes, so the company was always called gymshark, but we we've basically changed our logo through the years.

So i said as a kid i wanted to be a bodybuilder. That was the ambition, so at the start it was to build bodybuilding clothing, so the logo was like a muscular cartoon shark. Yes, i remember actually, actually it wasn't long after that. First event: we realized that um the bodybuilding market as much as i loved it.

We wanted to grow beyond that right, yeah. So the brief sort of to myself was: i want a logo that appeals as much to that bodybuilding market, but as everyone else and the brief was it has to appeal to my mom as well as me, um. So that's when we we built this sort of shark head logo that we use today and then we sort of started to venture out more into fitness. What um, what was kind of so obviously that huge event.

First, what was the next big quote-unquote moment? You think in building this business, because let me jump in here and make this not just about ben and jim shark and make it for all the listeners. What what you just heard is the same old thing. I mean this: is i'm gon na go to the grave people, laugh when i say the word arbitrage now in my real life, but i can't help it it's just what it is every second in the world, whether you're running for mayor trying to get money for Your pta sell, sneakers uh change people's opinions on something change. The way people dress a new haircut style, get people to drink, cleaner, stop, supporting something support, something, no matter what you are trying to accompl persuade your kids to do something, no matter what you are trying to do in the world.

The game of content and distribution is how the world works the game right right now. This is content and distribution. There are a lot of people listening and but the variable is what's going to come out of ben's mouth for everybody's listening right now, their perception of you and the brand from a filter of this community will be completely predicated on what happens here in the next 15, 20, 30 minutes now, whether that's 10 seconds on tick, tock or the first two seconds of a pre-roll youtube ad. That's even two minutes long or a piece of direct mail, a billboard walking through an airport and looking at a sign.

It's all just the same game. At every moment, eighty percent of the world is overpriced for the attempt to convince somebody of something the tele outdoor billboards are up 15 around the world over the last decade. In a world where, in that decade every passenger no longer looks outside bad deal right, you know a lot of people know where i feel about this, whether it's nft or tick tock or discord right now good deal, and this just ebbs and flows, and i think What i, what it's fun for me to hear this story, because i don't know this story. It makes so much sense because what you did in my opinion, because i pick up watching it in the wild somewhere around this point as the next year is the rep of facebook and youtube made you more prepared to be even better at it at instagram and Even the story, because you brought some people to that event, you were able to see that the personality arbitrage, those athletes, whoever you brought to that booth - that was the was a massive arbitrage both in people at the event wanting to come and see them.

But then also the content they were putting out into the world that led to this 30 000 day that that's, i always say, there's this thing where, when something special is happening, once you see it, you can't unsee it yeah. You didn't need to watch my content. Read a business book or go to a seminar to realize there's a thing going on here. Let me go committed, you're, a kid at that point and for everybody who's listening! That's what you're looking for you're looking for the underpriced moment in time! So many of you that are listening right now is funny.

I just took a flight here to the uk and i was reading a bunch of dms and i still still in the last 24 hours i probably had seven or eight people just flat out dm thanking me for pushing them so hard two years ago on tick. Tock - and that was the moment for them after seven or eight years of getting no traction, seven or eight years of getting no traction on instagram and youtube, and and this will continue to forever happen, and so again i want to take this. This lesson break from this interview. It's always going to be this procter gamble is the biggest consumer package goods brand in the world because they were the most aggressive on television commercials in the 1950s period.

End of story, amazon is the biggest company in the goddamn world, or at least one of them in the world, because it was the most aggressive buyer of google adwords in the early 2000s. There's always an arbitrage. Tell me just a little color on your next arbitrage, whether it was scaled, instagram or something else yeah. So next steps.

It sounds really weird by the way the the things i'm talking about, given the fact that we are everything we do is online and it's all on social, but we did that event really well and to your point, we noticed that so then we spent all of Our money go one, we agreed to do the event again next year and then we flew to cologne germany and did an event over there. So there was a big event called fibo, which was twice the size of the event. Here we did that the following year. We did uh arnold ohio, we went to california, australia, germany, uk, so the events thing just got bigger and bigger and bigger, and exactly the same as that first event: we were there.

We had the team, we had the athletes we had the community. We would lift in the gym after we would all and build that community and, interestingly enough fast forward, eight or nine years now, surprise, surprise: where are our key markets and our key areas where those communities were built. The uk, germany, australia, uh california, places like this. So we built up these communities now, as we go doing all these things.

Instagram is building. People are following following us on instagram on youtube and facebook they're following the whole athlete team, so one we're building up this community, but two we're starting to work out exactly how our business works, and i had a lot of big big learning curves in terms of How to run a business right? How to build teams, and i had to completely reinvent myself several times so in the early days, rocking up to an event and basically saying. I think we need to do this event, because my gut tells me to is fine and that really works, because you can move the business in a really quick way, but then all of a sudden you're building teams - and it can't just be what ben says, because That's not particularly scalable. I had to then learn to one build teams, work with people and then start to articulate reasons as to why then it gets even bigger, and i have to then learn to articulate a vision.

Speak like publicly on camera, understand better operations, finance logistics, tech solutions how to build a foundation of the business which, at the time i had no idea right. I was purely brand and product focused because those are my true passions, so i had to learn to one learn: to grow. Look to reinvent myself and three learn to love areas of the business, which i probably didn't naturally lean into as much as as an entrepreneur. Do you think that you need to learn to love those areas or do you think you need to find people who love those areas and learn enough to be dangerous to be able to manage those yeah, probably probably more, the latter more.

The latter, especially now at the start, when you haven't, got the resource. You have to sort of wear all the habits, so i think you have to for me. I had to really get so passionate about them. Now we're a much larger business.

You're right, you build. You find the best people in the world that you possibly can afford and you get them in that seat. It's really weird, as i was listening to you, i've been having a very interesting three weeks at vayner x, where i feel that i've been too complacent for the last five years in being too executive life and i'm patient and empathetic, and i don't micromanage, but i've Been signaling to my leadership team. Look, i'm i'm too right about where the market's going and i'm too passive in pushing you there, because it's uncomfortable for you, because you can't see it the way i can see it, and so i'm going to start being a little bit more aggressive in 2022 and 2023 to do what i know is going to be right and - and it was funny because, as you were talking, i'm like huh, what an interesting arc for a chief executive who founded a company in the beginning, like i've, never historically been concerned about this concept of.

It's not scalable, because it's you, because i also know that at amazon or apple or tesla or procter gamble, it's shocking, how few people actually run the company. The great secret of the world of business is the biggest businesses in the world are really run by seven 12. 15 people. I'm talking companies, 150, 000.

200. That's just the punch line of reality of it um, but it's so interesting. I would go be so in everything, then you go through that arc, you you create scale, but what happens? Is you build a company that potentially can be not as sharp yeah? Well, i, but i had to change a lot right so and i was an avid voucher of your content, particularly in the early days, and you would talk about leaning on your strengths, focusing on difference. So what i did in the early days was purely i had this this moment right where it was focus on my strengths or work and my weaknesses and i sort of try and zoom out of what ben wants and think about what jim sharp needs and jim Sharp needed ben to be incredibly strength, so it was at that point.

We brought in a chief exec, so someone else called steve who's run the company brilliantly up until a few months ago, when i came back into the ceo role, he could then look after to the to a degree running the business and i would go brand product Marketing and obviously i would have founder duties directed, but for on a day-to-day basis. That was all i focused on and i got really really really good at those things and that was really powerful for me because having steve there to look after the other bits meant, i could fail in those areas without consequence. So what the way i would sort of describe it is, i could jump into the finance department, mess around and learn almost like mess around and break things, knowing that it would always be looked after by our cfo and steve, and that's the way that i learn By actually physically doing the same exact way and like being in there and actually being able to do it myself, i mean there was periods in in product i'll, never forget this, where we needed to build a particular range. So we all just jump on a plane.

Fly out to the factory for a week and just make the range and then come back when it's done so now in the chief exec role, the context that gives me i understand the product process. I understand the brand process. I've been to every single event. I understand the marketing process and because i've been able to spend time in ops, go to distribution, centers live and breathe it.

I understand the foundation of the business as well, and the reason i can do that at 29 is because steven the chief exec role allowed me to essentially fail freely. I grew up in an environment where i did every single thing in my dad's store, so it was so easy for me at 22 to run it, and i remember when i started getting into corporate world, i was impressed, you know as an entrepreneur. You have a lot of cynicism towards big companies because they're slow and they do they do things great. They do things poorly, but, as you were talking, i'm like you know, that's one thing that i do think the fortune 500 world does do well.

If you look at who ascends into a ceo role, they make her or him bounce around in all the categories, so they can taste it. It was fun like when i was like again be similar to not like googling your company and seeing who you were. I don't tend to look up stuff, i just very similar. I just live it and i was like: oh, they moved to christian to product.

He used to be in marketing, wait christian's, the ceo now! Oh, that makes sense. He did all these. She did all these things so before we get out of here what you know, what i was really excited about, having you on with is that you're of the age and have had the decade that a lot of the audience that's listening is embarking on and definitely Aspires too um, i think, you've been really strong in articulating certain parts of that journey. Right now i have to assume, given how popular jim shark is with so much of the youth and where it was built to your point, a brand.

That's truly built in you know: i'm running around madison avenue, saying brand is built in social because they all believe it's built. Intelligent uh and your company is a true testament to that um. What are your go-to pieces of advice for the kids that are like? I want to be like you, because i'm assuming you get a shitload of that yeah um. To be honest, i think it's probably fairly similar to what you talk about.

I think self-awareness is key so that, if i wasn't self-aware as to my strengths and weaknesses and couldn't approach them in a logical way, then i think we wouldn't be where we are today. I think it's important for entrepreneurs and ceos to separate themselves from the business because they are is a separate entity, albeit so intrinsically linked like jim shark, is my baby. But i have to think about things from a gym, sharp point of view and something that i think a point we've done well, but i think we could do better at is it's very rare for something to work for a prolonged period of time. So i think we were talking before right about you with email.

Email worked, but then there's a point where very quickly and it almost comes out of nowhere - that it doesn't um and then sorry, that's not to say that email doesn't work. So i think, there's a huge huge value in it. It's not the same level of arbitrage. Things change quickly in such a big way and by the way in your business, product and marketing at the core, both change a lot yeah right like like i it was so funny drock.

Are you still wearing? Let me see your pants real, quick or you changed them on on the flight. You had you like you and many people are wearing yeah the bottoms right and i was literally as we were boarding the plane to london. I you know, i was a little ahead of you on the ramp yeah and you were walking and did you see me look at the sneakers, i wasn't looking at the sneakers, which would have made sense. I was looking at the fact that over the last 18 months, that level of band on pants is what people rock with and what i was thinking.

Drock was holy 20 years ago. My number one goal when i bought jeans was how wide could the bottom be, because i had to cover as much of my shoe as possible, because that's what was in style right and now, i'm looking around all the dudes like everything is like super tight right And like that's it, you know for me that wake-up call the only time that i felt like i would almost compare it to a fighter. The only time i was rocked in the ring like oh, i might get not was absolutely that 2002 2003 thing where i was like. How did i, this tenacious young, ambitious dude, fall into this lull, where i became completely one dimensionally vulnerable to just what i do on email and, and i could feel myself milking it and squeezing it and it felt really uncomfortable, and that's probably why i was so Quick to move to myspace friendster curiosity, because i'm like okay, that's, maybe something i can do and then boom youtube twitter coming the rest and then - and it shook me to the point where i think, i'm very aggressive on looking for the next tick.

Tock real quick before i lose you because my brain just went there because the next thing i'm looking at is discord. You said, and i want everybody to hear this - you can rewind it. You said the word community an enormous amount of times, and i and i do think what is going on right now, um and and everybody in this kind of general sense of our universe is aware of. What's going on with like the reddit robin hood stuff on buying stocks, i think i i think the discord thing really has my attention.

I really do believe that the facebook group discord thing is very real facebook group for that 45 to 90 year old discord for that 18 to 44 year old for every brand, i'm drinking a joe in the juice another good european based brand. That's going global! I think i do i do predict that and which i hate to do, because it hasn't really happened yet so i'm vulnerable here, but i think most brands are going to have discords and have them in a real way, because i do think community is been subtly Hidden in the comments, sections of social - and i think, discord with nft land is very clearly showing people. It's always been that and and what's interesting is to tie it all into a knot, because it's how i lived with wine library tv, i did a lot of real life events there too, and have always naturally gravitated towards them as well, because they're just community anchors, But i think, and then on that note as well you're right, there's so much to lean into online and you see so much about people saying like offline is dead. The high street is dead and when you hear that, i think your ears will prick up right and go if that's what's being said, there's an opportunity there and there are people that do do it incredibly.

Well, so, like community comes in all different shapes and sizes, i think to your point, and i love that, where my brain went is exactly what retail is going to turn into in the next 30 years? Is community hubs right? The store is going to become so different than what your mom grew up with. What i grew up with, like you're gon na be required to make that a place where somebody actually wants to go that hap. No different. Did you pop up at these events? That happened to maybe also want to buy something because a lot of stores and a lot of retail has been, and i split many companies into two different categories.

Right: you've always got brand and utility. Yes and like you, wouldn't go to a store now purely for a utility from a youtube utility point of view, because you can shop amazon, it can be at your door in two hours. So why would you go to a store so brand as a as a brand? You have to look after your community and i think offline will be a place where people to your products to being a community hub as we wrap up here. I uh i want to make a fun announcement to my community.

I am more protective of my time than ever very secretly. I just want to cancel everything and just only focus on v friends, because i should uh and probably my best quickest path to new york jets. However um ben and i did eventually meet during covet and things that nature and i'm happy to announce uh. I wanted to save him being on the podcast for this moment, uh that i'm joining the board of jim sharp, which i'm incredibly excited about.

I don't need you to talk about why. I think i want you to talk to people on how we bring them value. How how do you think whether it was with me or just in general? How do you think, when you have your baby, when it's your company you're now stepping into back into kind of a ceo role, even though i know what a founder ceo really? There was a lot of co ceo going on in that relationship with steve. But how do you think about board members for the people here who are looking for maybe not everyone's at the scale that they need a board member? But i do think a lot of people ask me: can i be their mentor and i'm always sad because i have no shot of that? I don't have the time.

But how does somebody who's listening right now, if they're a youngster, even if they're 62, and they could be a youngster in business because it might be their first entrepreneurial venture they've had a 40-year professional career? What's your advice as you're starting to court people like myself to the board, how do you think about bringing in a mentor or a board member? How do you think about that um? Well, yeah. I think it depends on the size of the business right, because i never thought we would need a board like. I didn't really know what a board did really until what like six months, i remember saying to you: i'm not totally sure how a board will work, but let's, let's try and work it out and remember. To be honest, though my approach has been one.

I again just always try and surround yourself with the best people possible. When i was a kid and i was at the gym, i would do that. I would always say i would go and pick people's heads at the gym like you just go and ask questions all the time, whoever it is and that's where i learned so much can i can i sneak this in real quick for fun. What is the biggest miss for the normal person around the gym? What is the if i ask you one or two, what's the biggest easy, if you want to gain a little muscle mass or do it right? What do you? What do you see as the common? The people that don't go as hardcore as you, the drocks of the world, right for example, who wants to stay in shape because he probably is a little vain.

But but is not like really consuming an enormous amount of content to be like. But, but would want to like maybe put on some what is the biggest mistakes? One word: if you could, if you could fix everything, it'd be consistency because like if i see so many people go seven days a week for six weeks and then never again for a year, and then they do it again, whereas you'd sooner go twice a week. For a year right than just like non-stop for school mine is where you were going food i covered, because i wasn't traveling as much mike and i mike fakanti my trainer and i who's been with me for a long time. I had mike for three years.

Then jordan, for two years now, mike for three years, i've had eight years now of like consistent training. I've put on more muscle during covid than i did the entire time, because i had a very weird thing. I was too hot and cold. If i worked out in the morning, i would eat very tight during the day, because i put in the work - and i was like that cause.

It was so scale, not muscle yeah. If i didn't work out - and that was very rare for the first five or six years, but the last two or three years - i've had more missed days, because we were just the amount of travel i did. They were always with me and we just kind of like toned it a hair down. If i didn't work out, i would eat more loose during cobin.

I went to reverse, which is far more of the ideal state, which is when i would be rolling or soft tissue or fascia, or something a little or just abs. I would eat incredibly light when i was doing muscle work like real lifting. I truly truly put in the protein against the work and it was significantly yeah makes a difference. So that's what it is drock! That's why you're struggling all right, let's, let's, let's wrap this up.

What are, what are you most excited about in in the gym shark land in fitness, land in consumer marketing, land and product land? Let's take this very macro, not necessarily very detailed, jim sharks, about to launch a lollipop more of the macro of this whole world. What are you seeing um, i think, similar to what i said earlier. I think we we have to rethink the way that we see so many things. I think i'm seeing a lot of signs similar to what you mentioned around email and a lot of the social platforms that live today.

I think to your point: discord and tick-tock and places like that will be the area to get eyes on brands, but also to truly build communities. Going back to what i said earlier, i think offline has always worked. I think there's the way that it works has completely changed and i think that's what we're going to see in the next few years. What about on the product side like back to the joke about the pop? Is there i think so from an apparel perspective? I think the opportunity for innovation is massive, because i think you're going to see, i think you're going to see materials innovation at a rate that we've not seen before, particularly from a sustainability perspective, whereas before it was all around sweat, wicking stretch.

Whereas now i think it'll be about being recycled and recyclable and having the performance properties being a sustainable one right. It's like after you're done working out. If you soaked your shirt, just throw it outside, because it'll just become part of the ground, maybe not that extreme. But what about on the footwear last question on the footwear side? Is there? Is there innovation opportunity for people working out? I've been seeing a lot of weird stuff right before covet, like at the gym, like people not wearing shoes at all.

Different socks like just been seeing what yeah? What is this i'm wearing, i'm wearing, i'm wearing barefoots? I think, but they laugh at me for wearing these. I i think i think, there's a massive opportunity. That's why i asked a question by the way i'm like what is he wearing? What are those it seriously was subconscious. That's exactly what just happened.

No, i think it's not the same. I think the opportunity is massive. I think, there's opportunity in sustainability. I think it's all about building out true performance products, but also sort of innovations in the way that the products delivered as well brother excited to get to know.

You much more uh, congratulations on everything! Thank you that would be a great day youtube bachelor. What's up it's garyvee! First of all, thank you so much. I hope, you're doing super well during these times. I also want to ask you please subscribe, because my commitment and exploration of youtube is about to explode stories, polls, more content, more engagement, more surprise and delight.

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