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Today's episode is the latest session of 4Ds done virtually. We discuss how to monetize page views online, how to build a brand organically on TikTok, what you need to be cautious of when introducing NFTs into your business, and more. If this brought you value, consider subscribing to the channel for more videos like this every week!
Enjoy! Let me know what you thought.
0:00 Intro
14:36 How do we monetize our free product?
26:32 What should we post to build a brand effectively?
36:00 How does my brand make money?
43:07 Is being a business coach a legitimate business?
46:20 How should I brand my podcast?
47:52 How can a small business stand out
54:50 Why you don't have the brand awareness you think you should

Thanks for watching!
Check out another series on my channel:
Tea With GaryVee (Fan Q&A Series):
Overrated Underrated (Hot-takes on Culture):
Gary Vaynerchuk Original Films:
Trash Talk:
Gary Vaynerchuk is one of the world’s leading marketing experts, a New York Times bestselling author, and the chairman of VaynerX, a modern day communications company and the active CEO of VaynerMedia, a contemporary global creative and media agency built to drive business outcomes for their partners. He is a highly popular public speaker, and a prolific investor with investments in companies such as Facebook, Twitter, Tumblr, Venmo, Coinbase, Slack, and Uber. Gary is a board/advisory member of Bojangles’ Restaurants, MikMak, Pencils of Promise, and is a longtime Well Member of Charity:Water. He’s also an avid sports card investor and collector. He lives in New York City.

Of course, i'm always patient. I've never had a year where i haven't grown. Why? Because the well is proper. This portion is like with me, so i think this is when you need to get selfish like you need to ask your question: hiring is guessing.

Firing is knowing, like you got to go fast. That's how you get done, that's how you figure stuff out. This is the television and the television is the radio, the 40s we're all present and accounted for thanks for showing up gary. We appreciate it um i'll kind of like we do normally i'll, just kind of walk you around the room, we'll do a quick little 30-second intro on each of the folks on the zoom here and then we'll do our second round with the deeper conversations um and Like i typically like to work with you a little farther away from you we're going to start in california, we don't have a ton of international folks.

Here, we'll start in california and derrick did arrive. He just got up from a seat, um derek's here all right. We're going to start with derek and surish uh derek, go ahead and say: hi to garyvee all right: um, hey gary nice to meet you, i'm uh, derek moore, santa barbara california, i'm kind of a split personality. I am a orthopedic spine surgeon, but in my training i started a startup company that i've been growing for the last 10 years and um.

You know that's who i am, and my mission in life is making sure that company becomes financially successful, meets all the goals and i'm kind of at that point where i've been doing both the company and my practice and it's game day. If i keep doing it the way i'm doing it, company is going to fail. So i got a lot on the line and, what's and what's the company do derek, we are an ed tech company, think of it as a hybrid between linkedin and a kaplan. We have a half a million physicians, 112 million page views per year, it's a giant in orthopedic education and understood, and what's the name of that, the name.

If you, google, search any fracture, ortho bullets comes up on google, so the name of the company, that's recognized, is orthoable. It's our flagship. We have another brand called med bullets, which is for medical students, uh and then the kind of parent company is this bullet health. That is an unrecognized brand.

But if you look up ortho bullets, you know we've been around for a long time. We pretty much rate number one for many fractures on google and uh yeah, and then that was supposed to be the five second one. No, we've also got saresh who works with derek and he's also he's kind of like the right hand, he does a lot of the marketing and he's a v friend, holder, so cerise, say hi. What's up gary and the and the knicks basketball and crush it and jab jab jab right hook, i'm in moods here yeah yeah hell yeah! Now i'm i'm a huge fan.

I've been, you know following you for almost a decade now i briefly met you at your first k-switch drop in 2017 and then at vaynermedia's voice con in 2018. You know, i know people tell you all the time how you change their life for the better, but you know i can't imagine that gets sold so. Firstly, i just wanted to say thank you for that um. You know i'm an orthopedic surgeon by training, but i went into medicine for all the wrong reasons.

You know we're at the 4ds, but in my house growing up with indian immigrant parents. You were going to be one of the 3ds. You were going to be a doctor, a dentist or a disappointment. You know, for me, you know, medicine was less of a calling and you know more of a telling.

You know my parents told me to do it. So i was, you know, as you can imagine, pretty unhappy throughout my journey of becoming a doctor, and then i found your content and you know learned a ton about self-awareness, um. You know i was hoping to get self-aware hair, but you know wound up with a rare, resourceful robin, but anyway um. You know you really allowed me to become that self-wear hair and ultimately led me down a path to kind of pivot.

Out of clinical medicine. I still you know practice, you know um in a few days a month just to kind of stay in the game, but i now working with derek and really you know finding something, i'm way more passionate about, and you know at bullet health - and you know really Um being able to align with um his vision and kind of help, you know kind of people like me, not make the you know same mistakes, so um yeah. Thank you so much. You got it yeah and scooting.

Up to santa cruz, we've got jeremy kirby. Who is the founder and ceo of dugout creative uh who's got a lot of overlaps with what you're passionate about gary, so jeremy go ahead and say hi yeah hi gary. Thank you. Thanks for everything you do um again like like joe said, jeremy kirby, dug out creative um 10 years ago, started out as baseball camps.

Everything we do is basically around the baseball industry and started out teaching youth in santa cruz county, with camps eventually moved on to academies, travel, ball teams, uh facilities, running travel tournaments. Basically, everything that that was youth, baseball, uh covet hit shut everything down. No youth sports anywhere, so it sort of forced us to pivot, and we we had been doing uniforms and fan gear and stuff for for local teams and uh teams across the country. For that matter and uh ended up sort of pivoting and um took advantage of a couple of viral moments.

I don't want to say which ones they were. But if you see the pouty face on a t-shirt from a from an la dodger player, you know who it is moment kind of, took off thought we were going to sell 50 shirts thousands of shirts later we're sitting back going. I guess we became a merch company overnight, continue to put out designs, sort of iterated on the city collection stuff that we had launched where we wanted to be the first one to do a baseball jersey that was city inspired, because we knew it was coming um. After the nba did it, we knew that it was eventually going to break off into into major league baseball and uh.

We did that that sort of helped put us on now. Looking at things we we wanted to be able to look at different things and not just be known. As a merch company. We wanted to experiment everything else uh, so we jumped into the gaming industry ran a couple.

Uh ran a couple mlb the show tournaments last year, as kind of some testers under a different, alias and then just hired uh, four or five gamers uh in the mlb. The show space uh streamers, on twitch brought them on board and uh are now creating merch and sort of trying to build a community around everything baseball and, like i said earlier, if it's, if it's cool and it's baseball, we sort of want to experiment and kind Of be curious about it and build a community around it and monetize through merch uh through merch, through tournament fees through advertising through sponsors for events a little bit everything you got it cool. Let's work our way into kansas city uh, dr malachi, say hi to garyvee. Gary glad to be on finally be connecting in this way.

Um, it's been a phenomenal session so far, so your team from joe to james to claude they've, crushed it just fyi and by the way i've got um your first book just pointed it there you go so i own all the books, i'm looking forward to a New one um, so i'm an accidental entrepreneur, um, i'm a moonlight as a pastor at night, but really running a couple. Businesses is my full-time occupation. Now i started a digital digital agency after i finished my my doctorate degree in digital marketing and it's done well and it's more solo, solopreneur few contractors, but in helping people with their marketing, i've discovered, there's more holistic business problems, so i've pivoted to do business. Coaching um kind of operating off some stuff that um donald miller does with business made simple university.

I have a passion to see. Other people succeed now, maybe more than just help them do well in marketing. I want them to succeed at large and many different things. Sidebar note: i'm an ultra marathon runner um run lots of miles every week, but just grateful for you grateful for your team excited for this session seriously fired up for it.

I'm excited too brother we've. You know, we've interact, you've been so active with my content through the years. I'm very grateful for that and i'm happy to see you. He also bought a hangout hawk.

So thank you i'll be seeing him much more often, yes and uh. Now we're gon na swing over to atlanta we've got nicholas strand. You've actually got one of his shirts gary i sent you one uh, but nick from choose your attitude say hi to gary, hey gary nice to meet you. Thank you um yeah, i um.

I started to choose your attitude um. I am actually naturally a roadie traveling, roadie um, i'm a video engineer, putting all the led screens together that you see at major concerts. Um walked right out of college right into my passion, um lifelong passion. But, as you know, everybody has a journey, everybody you know goes through life and um 2012.

I lost my mom to cancer 2017.. I lost my wife of 10 years. The cystic fibrosis, as you can imagine, life was tough, but she had an amazing story. She inspired me a lot, but those three years were tough until 2019.

I woke up and the left side of my face was paralyzed um. I thought it was a stroke um, but it was bill palsy which has come back luckily, but if losing my mom or brianna wasn't enough um, it was my wake-up call that i needed to write the book about brianna um and in my uber focus uh craziness. When i focus on something i go all out, so in five weeks sun up sundown, i wrote the book loving, someone is dying, um right there um and then writing that um brianna was very intelligent in uh. You know knowing kind of the afterlife, you know she knew that she was inspiring, but she wanted to leave something that would that would, you know, be bigger and, as i was writing it, i didn't even realize that the quote she had created.

Choose your attitude, create your life and i actually have a tattoo on my arm right here of her handwriting, and so, as i was writing the book this brand. It then i i realized the power behind the quote, um, and so, knowing that you know in those in all that death and all that heaviness and all that trauma, um the norms that people go through in life. They they struggle at society, suppresses it right, um and so my goal. As i wrote, this was trying to help people um got it.

You know do that, and so that's where the brand came from is that kind of funnel effect um. You know your welcome. Mat is the is the brand and then you know the create your life is. Is you know the deeper stuff, so it's pretty cool, yeah um, that's where we're at and then just as a kind of a struggle just to kind of show.

Um april 7th is when we tried to launch and then march 10th i lost my career um since the music industry went from 100 to zero and so investing everything into this i've basically managed to limp through without any income or anything. So that's the other part of the sub and down to jersey, the dirty jurors, gary your homeland, uh we've got podmax josh eric, go ahead and say hi to gary. What's going on brother, thank you, joe hey, gary, really cool to be experiencing this very now moment. Um josh carey, eric cabral, were the founders of podmax um at its core.

Podmax is a training and event company for entrepreneurs and thought leaders where we um. We give them the chance to identify practice and fine-tune their meaningful message, and then we help them get out. That message predominantly right now through the podcast medium. We do this through a few verticals.

Our main top of the funnel uh vertical is our now virtual event, pod max on the calendar every six weeks and that's basically an all-day virtual event where we bring podcast hosts. We match them with the client guests of ours that we've been working with and think of it like matchmaking for the podcast industry. They record on multiple shows relevant to their industry. All in the course of that one day in between the recordings, we have a variety of keynotes plenty of networking built in and um and and just a a great vibe of personal growth and development uh.

We each came from this because we each found the podcast space to be. You know: life-saving, really: wow yeah, yeah, brother uh, you know like you, man, born, raised and and die hard nick fan. Unfortunately, um we'll get our parade someday brother uh, but yeah i mean i was in corporate america for over 20 years and uh. You know built up some muscle and some some some superpowers while there and then realized you know you know, i've been building and creating wealth for for people who don't necessarily know my name and then, when i got to the level of uh, you know seeing the Numbers and like wow, i made millions for these uh these huge fortune.

100S. You know - maybe i could try to do this for myself uh, so i jumped in you were a huge inspiration to that um and jumping in headfirst and then developed my own personal brand. Through that process and journey met this fine gentleman and we just started building stuff together and figuring, how can we create and and best serve uh, our audience and and our tribe? I love it. Where are you guys, based in jers we're in trenton right now? I love our studio in trenton yeah and where do you guys live? I live in manalapan yeah, i'm in robbinsville, so all central jersey, yep yeah, that's pretty cool all right, great joe.

Let's do it awesome got the context. Let's swing back over to derek and suresh uh: let's talk ortho bullets and med bullets. Uh you guys got about we're gon na do about 10 minutes per with gary and and derek and sri and the rest of everybody else. This is where you go very narrow, like as if nobody else is here.

Um we've found that luckily, a lot of themes hit others, but that's what we want to do in this session. So let's go wherever you want to go derek. You got to take yourself off, i told srisha i was going to let him ask a tactical question, but i think i'm going to. I think i'm going to fire away on this.

So so we we have a very strong identity. Yet we have an identity problem. The reason is this company is a manifestation of me when i went through training. There were just things that were wrong and i basically said i'm never gon na.

Let these things happen to other people. It's a very political world. You wouldn't think it, but medicine is very political, so i spent the last 10 years. I very don't think so.

I spent the last 10 years building the credibility. The impact i mean our testimonials on our website are: if there is a nobel prize for medical education, you would deserve it, but now we're at that point. 120. 112 million paid views, but 1.7 million revenue.

I got ta turn this into a business. I've never wanted to charge doctors one more time. What is the url, because i wasn't able to find it. Orthobullets.Com ortho o-r-t-h-o bullets like bang, bang yep, so so i've never wanted to charge doctors, educational costs.

Our life is tough enough. We shouldn't have to pay for this stuff we're already in debt. I've always wanted to build a community, a social network and we've done it. We have half a million surgeons around the world, but now it's okay.

How do we monetize our page use? We can. How are you monetizing now literally ad sense like like lowest so right now? Our revenue is subscription 50, coming from b to c the doctor's paying for educational content 50. From a sas business model b to b, we sell to training hospitals, 90 market share of all academic. So so you are are doing.

You know 850 000 in revenue charging doctors, even though you haven't wanted to exactly yeah. It's a i'm, i'm zeroing in on a very interesting point. I don't know if this is a medical term, but it's definitely a jersey term. Have you ever heard of the medical term? Half pregnant nope? Let me let me tell you what it is.

You have incredibly good intent. You've built something meaningful because it comes from good intent and you built it out and you know obviously probably did extremely well in the sem ecosystem. I get it. You have this emotion and and proper one.

I get it even the way you said it. It's kind of like why i do well, i'm one of everybody in this room like even the way you said we're in debt enough we're like uh, you know you're one of them, which is why your product's good? It's. Why? My product's good? I'm truly pretty much! Everyone in this room, um, the problem - is you've already established the crossover moment, if you didn't have a monetization against them at all. This would be a complicated brand strategy.

The fact that you've already done it you're not winning any points from anybody by doing it, small you're, not getting any gravy points. They don't know that you're not making that much money. They just know there's something they can pay 9.99 for whatever it is. You're half pregnant because you don't really want to charge them, and so, like one of the places, i would immediately look if i bought this business like talk about a business that i would love to buy.

If you were like hey gary, i'm actually a huge fan. I want i'm done, i'm like going fishing, i'm just done, i'm good, and but i want to see this explode. I want you to have this business. You know that much traffic that seems meaningful because you're winning sem so it's intent based right, um.

It's you've got a uh. You've got a product service strategy conversation to be had. So what are you selling so the the reason we we've created this product? That's incredibly valuable! It's like it's like a drug that cures cancer, but we don't want to charge the patient. So what we do is we convert that for page views, so we got all these page views.

Okay, so now we just have to convert that page view to the business we believe in. I got it. How much, which is i got it? How much are the physicians uh actually paying the ones that do pay? They pay about 120 bucks per doctor per year right so you're saying it's all b2b. There is no doctors that pay 120 bucks themselves.

No half are beaten, so it's funny notice. If you i wish you could watch this recording. The same thing i started with is right, where i'm back at for a second, because you have so much conviction in this. I had to reaffirm that just now, because your mindset is that you're like and i get it by the way and it's a good idea by the way was i'm never going to charge a doctor, i'm going to charge it's going to be a b2bc.

It's a b to b to c model. It's not super complicated. However, i'm trying to remind you that 50 of your revenue is b2c with the amount of traffic that you have and the cycles that it requires to do, b, to b to c. I have a funny feeling your essence is spending 90 of your energy to make it a b to b business and 10 on a b2c, and yet it's 50 50 in revenue right pretty much.

That's the most interesting part of this diagnosis that, even though every part of you wishes no doctor was paying and that you probably opened up that later along the way because you wanted originally, for it only to be to be b2c. It's still 50 of the revenue because it is high value for what you're charging at 9.99 a month, but remember of our half a million users. Only three percent pay. I know, but that's because you don't want their money right.

It's bingo, bingo, bingo bingo. So the question is, and i'm saying if i could get literally what i'm doing right now, just to give you the diagnosis is doing this you're sitting here and i'm just by talking to you gon na try to make you do this, because i believe that if I'm able to get you to say my friend, i know we don't want to charge doctors, but they spend more than 120 a year on starbucks and the second i get you there and i get it because it's not. I don't think it's an easy hill because i feel like you're locked in, which is a me. I actually admire it and love it.

I'm just trying to get you to not demonize the 120, because the second you don't you change the whole product and the whole thing will tip all right. Let me throw one thing at you, because we're running out of time getting doctors to pay that money. It's hard work getting the institution to pay that money is hard. Look at your teacher's parking lot, there's no money in education.

I got it. I am very confident i can get one dollar per page view by connecting the right patient to the right doctor. You, google search femoral neck fracture as a patient in the er you land on ortho bullets. I have all the information on all the doctors, so you wan na you wan na you wan na um.

So what you need to do is probably what to re. Match.Com had 350 of the top engineers in silicon valley. You know it's important to say that, because people say things like this, without knowing those kind of details, raised hundreds of millions of dollars to build an affiliate, transactional, two-way marketplace. Uber ebay, home advise like the businesses are very obvious, but if you're gon na go down that route, you need to start thinking about fundraising, not about what your business strategy is going to be yeah you're right i mean you.

What we're saying is if we want that market opportunity, you have to go into hyper growth mode. You got to raise real venture, you got to play in the majors and get out of the miners and what i feel is um that if the intent was to get a 120 dollars from everybody, every doctor that the business would explode, that's my hot take on I've seen this pattern a lot, i think you're sitting on a lot of good gold, and i think you have to make one of two decisions. Yes, we're gon na go. Raise capital hire a true cto infrastructure to become a great affiliate based business.

Two we're gon na heed, gary's call and actually be okay and believe it is not hard to get 120 because of how much karma points we're putting on the board of this remarkable product and then make it front then make that the front-facing aspect of our business, Which will then help us start converting 9.3 percent instead of three percent of our traffic, because it was built to capture it right. Now, it's not built to capture that. So you think, with a 120 112 million page views still be a content subscription business. Don't try to be a pageview business, a page view.

Well, you don't want to be a pageview business, because a pageview business is advertising dollars. You want to be an affiliate. Business is how i heard it right. I i think the real interesting thing is the lead generation, the connecting the page.

That's affiliate, yeah. You want to be an affiliate business to be an affiliate business, you're running on incredible math. You know how, like people, think they go on google and webmd and think they're a doctor, and you guys laugh at them. That's how i feel right now about a web business for you to be an affiliate business you're, going to need a tremendous, cto and real capital, because you've got to make all the math work, whereas what i think you've done is built incredible guilt and equity in The ecosystem and with a front-facing facade, switch be able to get a lot more 120s 10 a month only 9.99 a month and then use that capital to actually put you in a year in a place to go higher and become.

I think you have to become a 10 120 doctor business for 18 months, so that you're in a power position to become the affiliate business and get to what in revenue that just becomes your expenses right, like revenue, is always predicated on the ambition and reality of Cost of running right, it's it's not a textbook ideology. It's! What are you about? James knows that he hasn't met too many operators that care less about bottom line profit than he met with me. It was always top-line growth because i was building growth scale. Why? I was building for myself, there's a so to answer that question.

I need to know what the heck you really you know to your point. I heard you enough revenue to make sure you don't have to shut it down because you're bleeding money. Let's start with that cheers: let's move on see what else we can get to all right: jeremy, you're up all right thanks, so we um we're sort of in uh um we're in a crisis. I guess of trying to figure out what it is that we are so i i can tell you right now i mean that's a media company that is contemporary and culturally relevant to a niche that has incredible economics and passion around it and then what you have To do on the back end is spend all your time and energy figuring out what you get the most enjoyment out of what you're the most capable of and what has the most margin in selling got it.

Okay, so that that's perfect! That's exactly what i was going to sort of segue into. Is we've been confused as to what to post what to what to or how to build the brand? Because we were never really sure what our brand was? And i guess you you either have somebody around you that went to a good college or buddies that work in marketing, because what you just said means nothing. It is the number one reason vayner is disrupting the industry. That br brand is what a human being feels about you you're, first of all, in the business of leveraging other brands to build yours.

Let's start there. I love for sure right. I love the mix. You're gon na make a joke about rj barrett, that's cool! To me, i want that like you're, you're you're fanatics you're, not you know right.

So i think that you know when i hear you say that question i immediately go to like what is he reading who's in his ear? What's he thinking about because i believe in bran the most by the way, the most um, but i don't think i think you actually know what you're doing volume social media creative? Well, inevitably, your brand what's snl's brand snl's brand, is the output of the feelings we all have based on all the skits, the skits weren't cohesive. The cultural relevance was cohesive yeah, but the way that everybody wants to build brand is make every snl skit the same. Okay got it yeah, and i guess it sort of scared us for a little while there, because we were so bottom of funnel with facebook ads for for quite some time. Um, because we put out all this merch, we put it for sale.

We ran tons of facebook ads spent thousands of dollars straight bottom of funnel. Didn't try to build a brand because we were, we were so new. We were just trying to keep the lights on sure after kovic shut things down, and so then you know one of the things that really really triggered things for us was when facebook had that glitch. I want to say it was about maybe six months ago, when all the ad accounts got shut down, our sales went to zero overnight because we weren't running any ads, and you know after watching you for a while.

I i i agree with you 100. As far as brand means everything and we failed to build a brand because we were constantly pivoting at whatever was new, can i give you a good piece of advice, sure build your brand organically on tick. Tock, like your life, depends on it: okay, four tick, tocks a day: okay, all brand, no sales, okay, so in that in in a way building can i can i give you yeah? Can i give you a couple? Other things sure please for everybody. Facebook groups are a secret weapon.

Okay for all of you, whether it's jermaine who's going to start a small business tech of new york society, whether it's you with baseball whatever or you want to make 50 of them baseball in ohio. Like facebook groups, for you building brand tick, tock go ham and then, finally, every day for the rest of your life, 85 cents can go for sales to keep the lights on. But until you die, you always spend at least 15 cents on that feels like brand. Whether that's sponsoring every little league team in the world, because you thought that was right or whether it's running ads on tick tock after you get organic things you're like wait a minute now.

I know why gary sent me here: it's the new facebook. You got it yeah, it definitely nailed it as far as uh we're, depending on other creators, to help build our brand uh because we're we're bringing on we're not connected. Can i give you, can i give you a good one? Please um, you know how champion and polo and louis vuitton have like signature clothes that are just massive logos. Yes, you should create one for yourself.

You should create a mascot like the chicken that the padres used to use or to philly fanatic. You should create your ronald mcdonald and you should give away those t-shirts. Okay in that 15 cents, it's brand, it's a lost leader. Yes, if you make something an epic character and it's a free t-shirt inside of every box and it cost you four dollars and nine cents, that's a that's one of the ways you spend 15 percent got it got it yeah.

We had. We had sort of experimented with that too, when we were going live a few different times on twitch we created a character called uh. We called them squatch where it was like a major league, minor, leagueish, uh, uh squatch character, and we made him fat just to kind of play. You know kind of poke fun at it to kind of be different.

I would i would refurbish that and get a real animation real 3d like really go there. Okay, be friends, okay, that was the other. I i guess to jump into. The next question i had too is um.

Should i be i mean i should always be cautious. I guess, but is there one of the things that we've been thinking about is sort of doing a lot of research and jumping into the nft space um? We plan on running uh a creator league within uh, the gaming space in baseball. We plan on running uh tournaments for for the audiences of a lot of a lot of our creators. We started thinking about you know all these guys have their own merch line, which we're creating and fulfilling and and uh delivering for them.

We sort of thought about creating some type of package deal that we could sort of put out as an nft, but the thing that's sort of uh, i'm a little hesitant on that - is that, if we're selling these nfts behind a personality that is sort of uh, I want to call them an independent contractor, but they're basically an independent contractor of ours. Is there anything that we should be super cautious about where, if we're selling a package deal with a guy that might not, you know, he might decide next year that you know what i'm out? I don't want to stream anymore. I'm going to go, get a full-time job. You need to be careful by over communicating to the audience that that might happen.

Okay got it, you know, look at me, yelling about nfts and then saying 99 of them are going to be bad investments. Yeah, okay yep got it all right, jk! Thank you! Nice! I'm going to go over to atlanta, nicholas strand from choose your attitude nick! Let's go all right! Uh thanks gary um, so i uh, as you can imagine, uh with with all the journey going on um. This was actually all kind of a a train that i kind of got thrown on. If you will and when i say thrown on, i don't mean um, you know, obviously i'm thankful for my life and everything.

So i started writing the book. All of a sudden, you know the shirts become this brand. You know visionary, i see all this being in the production industry. Nothing is impossible.

I mean, i'm literally paid to you know, ask to make the most difficult things happen, and so, knowing that this is all possible put it all together, boom covet hits. I lose everything, um, sorry, not everything i got it. You know so moving forward has been kind of a struggle um here i am i've got i've got the vision, i know how far i can go um, but at the same time i feel like every single step forward of success. Uh kind of you know is is a hundred steps back because you know um not getting no, not getting past um.

You know the gr not getting to a growth point right, um, because everything costs money. I've got the podcast. I've got the book. The book hasn't really gotten its light yet because i've been focused on the brand, why the brand, because it's not as niche as the book um, and that's also why i created the brand um.

So what did nick? What nick? What do you want to happen? So i think your scenario is interesting to me because you know: could i argue that you know you, you see things like life is good and see that as a very big business and you're like oh, that like is that what we're talking about here a little Bit so yes, all of that, and so just like just like brianna's quote um, it's so choose your attitude as the brand. That's the welcome format. To start the conversation i got it create your life is the other part where it's actually, you know the the? How would you like, let me ask you a question if i said i'm actually a genie from the future yep and i can do anything right. This second yep - and i said, and the only but the only thing i can do - is actually just dictate to how you not how much yeah, but in which places you would make your money in which places you would make your money.

How would you like to make your money if i said you're gon na make two million dollars next year? How would you break that down? If, if you had it completely your way, i would say the money would come from the brand, but the effort would be in the mission and be able to share that. I understand that i understand yep we're gon na have to separate the altruism from the business because i'm on board, but you didn't start a non-profit and moved to a farm and eat off the land, so you're in the business lane yep. So in that business lane. How would you like to make your money, not the i know the bus, of course the business has to make the money.

That's what business does, how right like? How would you like to make your money, so are you asking like the brand or are you asking like, so you have a brand right, yeah, exactly the brand. The brand is, is only speaking and books like it doesn't make money just for existing yep right, yep uh. How would you like to make your money? My brain goes to the brand, but i i i think you're going. That's what that yeah.

That's why i think you're vulnerable yeah, because i think you're not making the most like. I felt it from the setup and i definitely felt in the first few minutes, which is why i'm pressing here, because i want you to win and i'm excited there is no such thing. I'll give you an example: hey johnny up phil knight, hi phil knight. How would you like to make your money the brand? I understand it's a swoosh.

I get that how oh i'm gon na sell running sneakers to wholesalers they're going to sell it, i'm going to make a margin, i'm making a sneaker the wholesaler's going to buy it years later. If what i decided to do it on a golf ball, because we signed the best golfer in the world, like you know, we sell stuff right. You know amazon, jeff bezos wanted to sell books. Today, his company bought mgm and they're gon na make money by owning james bond's ip, because they're gon na, because you're gon na sign up for prime got right.

So how do you want to make money? So i think you're going deeper into like the doing speaking gigs, the podcast to um the social ad channels and those type of things i would assume yeah. I think the thing that stands out for me brother, is have you thought about possibly bringing in a business partner who can be the business person so yeah, so that's kind of yes, i've brought. I have that kind of actually in the works of a marketing. Uh team owner and then also so i actually uh traveled with dave matthews band, and so i'm working with dave, matthews bands um trying to kind of team up with his apparel guy to kind of get that and then i would focus.

I think i think it's a little bit different is: would that apparel guy be doing this full time so like? Let me, let me tell you what i what i noticed. I think you're the creative director of this company for sure you're the assets correct. You are a hundred percent, not the person, that's going to build the business. I i that is my.

That would be a weakness. Yes well saying: a weakness is building a business in the context of building a business is like saying i can't swim, but i want to swim well. So here's the deal so well not here's the deal, but my life has always been selling myself right. As a roadie and such i understand getting hired for pride that i understand yeah and by the way that whole world's coming back and we'll be back, and so we got to keep that in mind to me.

What i see is a very interesting scenario where i'm trying to figure out what happens over the next 18 months so that you win my intuition. Is the roadie thing's going to come back and you're going to make a decision on? You know how much of that do i want to do two, and this is your life mission at this point. This is your tattoo yeah, your wife passed away. I mean this is huge, so i want this to succeed on the flip side.

To make a brand pop is hard yeah and you have to be an operator and be good at it on multiple levels. I think you're the inspiration and the essence, but if you're going to make choose your attitude of business, i think you need to hi. I think you need to partner with somebody that owns a piece of it as well, who's actually an operator, because i don't think that's your calling from you. You can't be at this place answering my questions this way and gon na end up being the guy who's.

Actually gon na build the brand and build the business. It's not gon na happen right, in fact, and that's okay by the way, that's amazing! Well - and that's that's been my biggest struggle throughout the year is like, as as a production person, i'm the first guy to know like okay. I can't do this, so i need to build a team correct. So to me to me, though, at the ambition level that you have and the importance that this is, that should be the only thing on your mind.

Who, who am i good? That's it nothing else! Oh! So it's it's good to hear. You say that because a lot of the business people in my life have told me, you have to keep working until you're dead and then you can start getting people and in my head it's been no. I need to build a team, it's all about, because what you need to do is find someone that looks like me, that's in between, like like, if i was in between let's say a month ago like let's make pretend i was the dream candidate a month ago. I freak out and say you know what as much as i love business, i'm now ready to go into a different version of that.

That is far more non-profit. I'm gon na build something with a mission, and then we stumbled on each other. Somebody introduced us. I would have been perfect because i could make choose your attitude enormous.

I would have taken 49 of the business you would have had all control, because i would have been empathetic and said hey. This is your. You know i want to own 49, so you always have control. I want some protection in case you get mad at me and then i would go build the business while gleaming inspiration from you yep putting you out in front telling the story.

That's where you are at nothing else will work. Thank you. I've been feeling that way for a while it's imperative that you hit joe q before you decide to do a deal with carol. Yes, because i want us to double check if we feel good about who you're picking, because the you in this situation, yeah often picks not good people fact.

No. I appreciate that for sure i do have to ask one more question. Um - and i know you have a good rolodex um, because my podcast is of choose your attitude and it basically hits a lot of people of uh heavy heavy struggle and stuff um. I was going to see if you might have a couple guests that you might be able to throw my way that yeah i can joe and i will stories yep joe package it for me, so it's packageable yep all right.

Thank you appreciate all right. We're going to backtrack a little bit because i skipped over the middle of the country, which is unintentional, dr malachi, say hi to gary. Let's go with you, i thought it was intentional. Yeah i've been homeless too.

I've cried somewhere else. Right no worries um gary i've got three questions. Joe's kind of guided me on this, so i'll give you the overview and then, unless you think i should go in a different order, i'll, let you answer them. I think they're probably going to be meta, but maybe one you'll just grab onto so you got it first.

One's probably gon na be about a podcast, related question. The second one's gon na be about uh digital agency in small town, america. How to kind of stand out and the third one is more because i've pivoted to more of a business, coaching, um, business and and questions related around that. Based on the fact.

I actually heard that in a marketing for the now or something that you had a business coach. So if that order sounds good to you, i can just go through them and see what you grab ahold of yeah, the third one. We we hired a business coaching organization for the organization, i i didn't per se i mean i had three or four sessions. It was lovely, it was awesome like i enjoyed it, but i um i i think many i think you have to know how you learn.

The reason i've never really had a business coach is the same reason. I was a terrible student. I don't learn from a dictation opinion point of view. I learned through osmosis of the living it so, but if you learn and by the way, even just watching how you follow me, you may do great with a business coach.

What you want to make sure that you do with a business coach is make sure that she or he is not preying on your insecurities. Well, what i mean by this, i actually became a business coach because i've been helping people. I remember marketing and i just was curious because i also know your opinion on a lot of people charge for things that really is free out there, um and people. I think i look it's the way i think about even 40.

You have to be able to put your head on the pillow and feel great if you feel like you're spending meaningful time and you're, and you really feel like you really see. For example, i really really really really feel this is underpriced like. I know what i told derek is right, not even like a debate. It's very easy for me to audit i've had too much pattern recognition.

I have too much like it, i'm just in the prime of my career and he's at a very clear and present scenario of one of those two options he's gon na now think about that it. I know for a fact what i told nick is a hundred percent right for him right if you get. If you truly believe in your sense that that's what you can do, it feels amazing, not shitty. The reason i hate it is people just take courses to sell people courses and just want to make money like they don't give a i'm.

I hate 4ds. Can i tell you why one person that doesn't think it's good is a vulnerability to me. I just enjoy the it's. Why i don't be friends like i'm finding it like these guys, don't realize how vulnerable 4ds is like i'm getting more busy like well with me.

They'll be great they're, amazing, but like with me, i do this because i like it so much and i learn i like listening. It's like a win-win-win-win situation, so i think for you, you just have to make sure you're pumped and you believe in your and, if not get your get your knife sharper totally totally well, let me just ask you that let me ask you: the podcast session go Up the list and tell joe's, do it so all right, so i actually get ready to launch podcast. I know you've been preaching that for years, i'm not ready to do it, but i'm the paralysis of analysis. Um, i'm obsessed with seeing how the people succeed literally.

For me, i want to interview a wide variety of people, but i've been caught like because business coaching stuff ultra marathon running stuff, do it all you're such a fan of my stuff, my stuff's all over the place. So do you brand it personally? Yes, because then you're then you're the catch-all. Okay, all right! Well, that's literally call it. The dmo show perfect perfect.

Well that answers that question. I'm gon na move up to the next one. Let's do it all right. Second, one was, you know why it's important by the way, i want everybody to hear this, the more broadly you brand it, the more flexible you are.

I got on you know for making like for not like calling myself like everybody made fun of me on twitter i'll. Never forget it! A lot they're like oh, that was stupid. You should have been wine guy or wine dude at wine dude or wine gary. Why didn't you why'd you do that gary and in my mind, i'm like because you you don't understand i'm 32 years old, like like i'm going to be a lot of things, i'm going to be gary vee, i'm going to be gary vee, like you know, and So that's what you you're a young dude you might.

You might want to really talk about chocolate making in seven years and your podcast can do that. If it's the you know, dmo show very true yeah, no perfect that answered that question exactly um and one of these days we'll have your team on as they're awesome all right. So i run a small digital agency right now in kansas city. Here's the exact question some of these: some of these businesses don't even have a marketing budget.

What are the ways? A small digital agency in 2021 can stand out in the crowd of agencies and deliver the most value to clients. If i were you every night for multiple hours, i would search content in the greater kansas city area on instagram, facebook and twitter by businesses. I would click the content. I would then audit all three four of their social platforms and i would send them an email of a 20 10 12 minutes, audio recording of an audit of what you see they're doing well or where they can improve on their content and leave it at that.

It would dominate, you would do unlimited business, because one out of every six people would just give you the business after the. How do you price point that? Because i probably feel like - and i know claude jumped on this and intent wise - i probably undersell myself because i'm afraid to ask the larger retainer you know - i also you know, don't let jim no james knows this. I don't love charging either like believe it or not. I think the right answer is always a little bit more than the last time until you get 25 no's in a row, and you found your answer perfect right.

So if you're charging - where are you right now - 500 bucks a month 500 months, 500 a month per platform, so literally literally i'm not kidding, you decide to follow my idea. Sure enough. The third one, the six pizza locations guy gal, writes you back. You get into a convo, literally literally, you tell them 550 a platform and the next one's six and the next one's seven perfect, perfect, and i'm also creating all right by the way.

Talk about that's advice, that's how i built vaynermedia. I had no clue, you know it would be like three thousand dollars a month, they're like okay, good, i'm like okay, next one's like five dollars. You know, like you, just tried, you know, eight thousand, who was your first client in vaynermedia. Our first clients were five thousand dollars a month.

There's this enormous debate on the history of vayner media. Actually, the first client flat out is absolutely gillette. We had a. We were outsourced vendor by somebody else for gillette to do this event in vegas social media content.

We got paid 80 000 for something i thought was worth nine dollars and literally, if i didn't need that money so bad just to pay the first three people, i probably would have talked it down, but you know you know, beggars, can't be choosers, sometimes um and I remember thinking man, people paid this much in these big like it was, but then i didn't want to build that kind of business that i wasn't proud of. So we built this five thousand dollar month thing and it was a very quick jets nets. Campbell's uh nhl, the nhl, like we pepsi the jets nets campbells every one of those companies. I just mentioned my brother aj, registered their facebook and twitter account on his computer wow wow last question and by the way i thank all the ethereum that you probably own.

Now will help you buy the jets fyi. Well, the tax head. I have at a 4200 base when it's at 2800 has me in the real pickle. So i'm not i'm not as cool as i look on tv.

Aren't you glad you told him when you did versus this week when the ethereum's half the price? No, because i didn't convert the ethereum into cash yet and i have a tax vulnerability. So i'm in a little bit of my own anxiety, these days, um last question, and it goes back to the business coaching thing: if business coaching was your business yeah, it's what would seek what would make it the most profitable is it products? Is it events uh? What do you think you would do if you were doing a business coaching business to try to make it? You know he does do a business coaching business yeah, mentors yeah. It takes a piece of the upside um. I i think i would have done it the way i did it, which is, i would try to make the money in speaking and instead of taking it from peop, i'm a very big disadvantage.

Excuse me advantage that i have to be careful of. I am gon na end up being a really great all-time businessman like not just okay, and so i have to be careful because that actually is like talent. That's like lebron james, saying to you hey just practice. Shooting all day.

That's cute lebron you're a all-time athlete. There was a lot of things that, of course, you put in the work, but there was a lot of things that came along as i continue to go through my career, i'm like. Oh. I really hit the dna lotto at this thing.

I need to be careful to not get of course. Oh of course, i didn't try to monetize anybody i didn't need to. I was capable of building 100 million dollar businesses on the side and giving everything away for free. Not everybody has that luxury, but but the seed still sits there doc the more you - and this is why i love derek so much, but i'm trying to tweak him in a different way, the more value you provide without asking for something, the more leverage you have To monetize um, but they're, also much like this program after years of never considering something like this, i'm like wait a minute.

This is good, and this is my own ideology, which is why derek got such passion from him, because i was in the meta moment. I've never charged anybody for business advice now. This exists so we're right here doing it and i'm trying to get him to do for his business. What i kind of did, because people are winning, people are winning on their investment with four d's and, and i think people would be winning on the because the second derrick and sorry decide we're gon na go ham on ten bucks a month that product's gon na Get epic because right now it's subconsciously just like the secondary thing until we can get to the thing and then we'll not charge anybody i get it or or you make it crazy, good, perfect, i'm the best salesman in the world, because i don't sell anything.

I don't think is remarkable whether that's a pinot grigio. Do you know why i'm so pumped about v friends, because everyone's gon na destroy it me neither all right. Let's move on thanks all right uh are we up? Is that yeah? Are we up okay, cool cool, so gary uh? We have something well, two questions, we're not gon na, probably get to plow through three of them, because the first question is massive and we want to go deep, um and then the second one is actually a huge ask, but so the first one i just want To set it up and then and then and then i'll give you the question, but you know we're in the podcasting industry, and you know we have a very unique event. You know that matt people like to call us where the matchmaker is from yep.

I heard it podcast right and then and it's live it's all. In one day we get masterful keynotes. We've probably had everyone in your c-suite a keynote, and then you know we do training prior during and even post uh to help them craft their messages.

11 thoughts on “The Secret to Building a Brand Right Now Without Paying for Advertising | Inside 4Ds”
  1. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars CURVYGIRLZROCK says:

    Fantastic advice… getting a buisness partner and allow yourself to be the Creator
    Can u give me a few tips on how to find a buisness partner that is trustworthy….
    I will seriously consider your advice.. thanks in advance for your input

  2. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars John Ellis says:

    So freaking phenomenal!!! Team great job , always love the 4d's :: It is awesome to be able to share in the great insights Gary has !!! Doe knows awesome and this is it for sure!!!

  3. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars N dvr says:

    I don't understand what these 'Hangout Hawks' things are. If there was something I could pay for and talk business with you folks, I'd do it, but there's all these hoops to even understanding what you're talking about…

  4. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Ken Brunet says:

    I watched all of this and I have zero clue what any of it means or how to use it… I have bigger problems then I thought if i'm gonna get into any of this… I'm gonna go feel sorry for myself for a bit now.

  5. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Florian Rauscher says:

    Hi everyone

    Great talk. Got a lot of inspiration. One question: how can I participate on your regular talks. I'm founding a Japanese inspired label for commodity wear in Germany.


  6. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Grace Holter says:

    I’ll love to share how I have been able to make so much profit in crypto since the year began, I honestly can’t understand the negative attention cryptocurrency receive.

  7. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Callum Alexander says:

    I make huge profits on my investment since i started trading with Mrs Regina peters, her trading strategies are top notch.

  8. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Cat the Advocate says:

    Literally that's how I got clients when I first started.

    I went into free Facebook groups and answered questions with immense value for free. And I did free Loom walk-through videos of their sales page copy and wrote sample blog articles for people when I didn't have testimonials to rely on.

    They LOVED it, seriously.

    I had zero connections or know-how (and didn't know about Gary Vee lol). I just hoped if I threw enough value at people they would be so dazzled they'd pay me for more work.

    (And that's what happened extremely quickly.)

    It's a sound way to start if you're just starting out.

  9. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Anthony Parra says:

    Gary, If you thought medical was political why'd you vote for Biden? Why so anti Trump when he fought for the retailers, The Americans.

  10. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Steven Thompson says:

    They arent paying because he doesnt want to charge them, but the B2C want this product and its clear on page views and traffic – give the market what they want.

  11. Avataaar/Circle Created with python_avatars Dave Hummels says:

    From the research I have done so far as old as the pandemic the word is out, Bitcoin May reach $100k by next year, and is going to change a lot of people's life.

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