One question: An amazing lineup of CEOs Founders and experts. This is marketing for the now. Can you hear me thank you so much? That made me feel ofad welcome everybody! Happy World Kindness Day! It's a special Monday for all of us really fired up to have a conversation today. We're going to be focusing on how to unlock the growth mindset.

We've got a a tremendous crew here. um we're going to be kicking things off with the CMO of the WNBA um Phil cook and I think Gary's going to be joining us in just one second I can feel it I can feel it Oh there there he is. Hi hi hi hi I was just mentioning to everybody it's World Kindness Day Happy World Kindness Day Happy World Kindness Day happy Monday All right we're gonna jump right on in talking about unlocking a growth mindset and guess who we have first who Phil Cook the CMO of the WNBA We were just talking that he uh has been at the WNBA for a while where he's driving fan growth and brand and strategic Partnerships but 27 years at Nike before that incredible I'm Gonna Leave it to you too to kick it off. thank you how are you? It's great to see you brother.

it's been a how are you man good man. First of all, Congrats! You know I know we. uh we had a one-on-one meeting not too long ago and it's just been so exciting to see the momentum of the league and the brand. And I think for everybody who's watching here and definitely the hundreds of thousands of business and marketing and pop culture leaders that listen to the podcast over the next several weeks and months, I Think we can all agree that from a net, net gut feel.

Common Sense Standpoint: Uh, there's been a lot of good going on in the WNBA and that makes me really happy for you and them. Yeah, you and me both. Gary I I I Think you know you hit the nail on the head when you said momentum it is. H Certainly in our favor right now.

We you know another successful, you know, Season under our belt and and growth everywhere which we're very excited about with lots of potential still on top. Um, so talk to me about this. You know, you know I Think that one thing that really took me back and I really enjoyed our meeting over a year ago. whatever it was now I Sense the growth mindset.

You know I think a lot of times CMOS Talk growth but they're actually on defense. Um. and I You know what do you? for Everybody who's listening? What does it require? Um, politically in a corporate environment? mentally for yourself, work life balance with a family strategy? How do you keep up on it like there's so many places you can take this fill? I'm curious where you will take it. How do you define unlocking a growth mindset? You know we're We're fortunate that we have such a great platform from which you know to pull growth from right? We have 144 of the greatest athletes in the world and their influence stretches beyond the court.

It stretches uh, certainly into culture and into purpose. And when you have that canvas from where you can, you know you can craft stories and you give your team the ability to unlock those stories and find new and creative ways to you know Inspire and engage fans. It's you. know the limits are are endless and and that's what we've done.

We've really started to again lead with our athlete. Stories make compelling content. a lot of it. learn from that, keep creating and you know it's it's typical flywheel, it it's working and and the engagement and our partners are finding the same formula.

and when they do it, it's it's Unstoppable What do you think the opportunities of Distributing your stories are for Growth mindset? Marketers like, where do we need to be Like at the end of the day, it's all storytelling. Yeah, where do people fall in love with their Stars You know, obviously that landscape changes every decade, every half century. What's you know for the growth mindset? Individuals out here who are operating organizations, whether they're an entrepreneur with five employees trying to sell flowers, or whether they're a big organization. What's your hot take on the growth mindset? Um, what The storytelling platforms that really can capture the execution and actually create growth? You know we're We're getting sharper at who we want to uh, share our stories with, right? We've always had a very loyal fan base and we can keep engaging them and and that's that's kind of the foundation for you know the W At age 27 I think the opportunity in front of us is to find those fans of of sport and of competition and of culture and find new areas from which to share our our our stories uh and new platforms.

and and look we want to get younger. we want to get more diverse. We want to do what so many other brands do obviously and we know that we know that that women's basketball. Let's just use that as a SharePoint can can certainly reach beyond the confines of fans of women's basketball.

And I'll give you an example. last year was Final Four right? The stories leading up to the Final Four championship last year incredible and Their audience went from five million to 10 million. And those that five you know what's funny. Phil You know what's funny about that? Those two stars it did feel a little bit like Magic Bird 100% right? Like that's our reference point right? Like that? That 1980 I guess is what it is.

Yeah, um, Final Four which then dovetailed into them going into the NBA and long before Michael Jordan came along. There's I mean the 1982 NBA Finals was not live in America it was on tape. you know, Insane that is. CBS chose to show golf instead of the NBA fin in 1982.

That's where the NBA was and then. so you need these people that transcend and create growth. And obviously those two did last year. and you've got the same thing happening in the in the Pro game.

your game. Um, I there. It's unbelievably exciting in general women's sports I think is more virally a combo with, you know, soccer, proper football, and with what's going on in WNBA Final thoughts on the Watch outs: There's a lot of CMOS and CEOs listening, especially over the next month or two as this fully gets consumed, Not just live. What's the cliche corporate bull crap that stops growth? Ah, your willingness to accept risk, you know? I I Think I Think to truly unlock growth, you've got to be willing to fail.

And and I Know that is a little cliche, but it it. It's true. Like, like you don't know what's really going to make that that incremental until you try some things and you've got to be willing to. Some of those things don't hit and we're We're getting to a point now where that's part of our offense.

get out there, fail fast, and and go and I again, it is a little cliche I'm trying not to be, but we we have to be confident in the fact that it's okay to take some big swings because if you don't take big swings when you have momentum, it's too late when when you're falling off the ledge. right? So this for the people that are naive to corporate, Is it just like people get fired and they don't want to lose their big jobs? Like is that what? like the big I mean you're a senior exec? Is that like what you sense about you and your contemporaries or the way you grew up? The people that hold your spot now that you looked up to and wanted to be one day? Is it really as simple as that? Like you take a big swing, it's a PR Miss and you become the casualty. And like that is the fear that stops people from doing smart, contemporary stuff. I Think all of that.

I Honestly don't think it it leads to firing I Think it leads to a personal like I just I just took one, but you get over it and you learn from it. And and and I think that's what I'm trying to encourage my team to do. take the risk. It's okay.

if it doesn't fail, you won't get fired if it doesn't work. Yeah, I Think right. it's rare. It's rare.

Thank you so much brother! Congrats on everything in WNBA We're proud of See you Gary Love you Thanks Phil Gary We're gonna bring up Casey O'reilly Next she's the CMO at Stuart Whitesman. And she's She's a courageous one. she's has three months under her belt at Stuart Whitman and I Love that she's driving Brand Heat in addition to eCommerce and all everything else that has. And she's in the in the busy period for H for uh, the holidays.

Uh, but she came from Proctor and Gamble and had a 19-year career there at Sk2 in Olay and lived all over the world so we'll hand it her over to you. Hello hey Case How are you good good, good to see you Gary Great to see you! Congrats on the gig and we'll get into it in one second. but I just want to give a shout out to everybody watching. Victor Ramirez on LinkedIn Jonathan Pce uh good to see you on LinkedIn as well Martin Katz on YouTube Like the Brand Heat comment Uh, super simple marketing.

Good to see you as well. Uh, really really really. Uh, appreciate everybody who's on. we're seeing your comments.

Please keep adding to it case. Obviously you're you're in this new role. An iconic brand, especially with known for an iconic item. The boot has all its strengths and weaknesses that come along with it.

You have this incredible run. I'm going to give you some flowers when Audre said 19 years I'm like did Casey start when she was seven. Two days to you that that PNG skincare routine clearly worked. Um um, you know, obviously a long run in in an iconic institution like PNG.

Here's a good question: unlocking growth Mindset When you're the new kid, this is something. you can really help a lot of people because a lot of people are going through transition. How do you? How do you walk lightly because you probably don't want to come in too hot? Yeah, but I'm sure you have your own passion point of views, especially with fresh eyes of like man, we're not doing this and that. Talk to me about that.

Yeah, no. I I was thinking about that this whole unlocking growth mindset for myself. like how did I go through that? How did I grow within that that path and really I'm a parent of two kids um, middle school and grade five and you just really hear them do a lot of self negative talk in their heads like I don't know this or I'm not good at this and as a parent I really wanted to learn how to help them and I know it's out there. but really this power of I don't know yet that word of yet is something like really really powerful and I the more that I exercise it with my kids, the more I also accept I actually can do that as well in my work like I am the new kid? um and you've been all in those meetings.

Also, everybody seems to be like smarter than you and like all higher up. But and you're almost scared of saying that um when somebody asks you and you don't know, you're scared of saying I don't know. but actually it is okay. what matters especially especially in those first 100 days exactly, there's ever a time to be like I don't know I don't know why I don't know that first six months is a huge opportunity.

and to your point, a lot of people blow it out of being insecure and not deploying humility as a weapon exactly or saying already something that you know as if you know the answers to to to to us there but same and nothing turns off a team that's been in the trenches for a while than someone who's coming out of left field and acting as if they already know everything exactly. So it's okay to say I don't know but what you say next which is that yet and also what you do afterward is what matters the most and what will set you apart when you follow through and actually go back. you know I said I didn't know but I went out there and figured it out and this is what we're going to try. So the things that you do afterwards is what's going to like um, you know, make you think that it's okay to say I don't know.

So that's uh, this period is really all about that. that that acceleration of learning listening. um but at the same time a little bit more biased towards action. It's super important that in this first, like 90 days, you put stuff out there so that you quickly get to that flywheel of learning of that that that failure that you guys were talking about them just now.

But yeah, that's how it's been. It's been really exciting and fun. Do you believe that you can unlock growth more in the honeymoon phase? Or or you? because again, this is so great to have you on a show because so you know the nature of our industry. people do end up in a lot of different places so lot and this time of year.

So I'm excited knowing a lot of people listen to this over the holidays and getting into January and may impact them. Do you believe that when you get a big gig, top of the food chain in marketing or anything else for that matter, that you're better off attacking the growth in the honeymoon phase of the first six months to a year? Or do you think the strategy is to tread lightly and try to do the action in year two? That's a really fun question. DeMar Where you're going to go? Yeah, No. I I Mentioned it a little bit earlier, but really, as a leader I think um, there is that imperative to have a bias for Action Um, that's probably what.

U impedes a lot of growth when there's so much um, analysis and um, you know, talking versus like starting to create put stuff out there so that you could just really learn faster and just never stop incrementally improving things. So that's I Guess what? I would say that the um doing something now would be better than doing something like a year later. What? um let's talk about growth mindset in you know, obviously going through the Proctor machine. a lot of marketing Talent a lot of legendary Talent there when you got there as a kid which Mentor most showed you what growth really looked like and maybe let's get you know I think people don't give enough flowers so let's make someone's day here.

Hopefully someone will forward them this video which Mentor call if you feel comfortable, call them out by name and tell us the story where you said okay I don't need to be robotic about this, this is not Academia she or he did this I learned any any story pop to mind when I go there case yeah probably know know who he is like. Sandep is my mentor. he's a current CMO from coach and I really remember one project and actually specific one day that we were working on something together which was actually something that is a first in the world like this smart store in Tokyo like something that um combined AI facial recognition all of the analysis that you could do for your skin and it was doing things that have not been done before and the day before we were supposed to open nothing worked and I was the lead for that project and I was like dying. I was like I can't I can't like just fathom how to how to figure this out and the entire team was really so so sad and down and um we were ultimately of course afraid.

Like what will our boss say like s was the the big boss then but amongst everyone he was the most positive at that moment that mattered you. You really felt that he got your back and that it is okay that we could figure this out. it's the next day. it's not about this is the biggest thing ever but hey we're opening a learning lab.

You guys help figure this out. Some things are working what's your input like so it kind of like switched a little bit in in that sense. So there are ways out there are always like Solutions and knowing that your boss, your or or the people above you has your back and that you could do it, you know that's the biggest unlock for everyone. um in the team the the the number one thing that is required of leadership is the elimin of fear.

Yeah, absolutely absolutely. I Know you guys were talking earlier about this said about being fired but it's not. It's not that like we really do care about what other people think about us like would I be seen as a failure or would I be seen like I'm not in in my aame but you just have to like um believe that uh everyone just wanting to do a good job you know and that your role is that to help support them and Empower them to to grow into that goodness that they have in the last minute that we have. I'm sure you thought about things we might touch on or you wanted to talk about anything we didn't touch on that you'd like to bring to the conversation.

H I know I would say I would just really go back to that um thing about as a manager as a leader now it's important to have your teams back. It's important to to um, you know, role model that Curiosity even at this level Okay to say you don't know, learn it with the team and uh you know it's it's it's It's really wonderful to think about always having that yet as a word out of allity, Casey we're ruin for you I know we're in the same building. hopefully see you in the elevator. stop by.

it's always great to see you. Good luck, good luck Thank you Thanks Casey All right Gary We got another good one coming up. We've got our friend Daa who's coming in live from Portland the CMO van she too is it's kind of early on in your tenure there. is that right? Tra yeah Got another Nike vet uh we were.

We were just having a little reunion in The Green Room beforehand. it sounded like uh, there was like a little bit of an overlap with Phil almost 20 years and she also uh, did her fair share of globe trotting and was at Timberland as well. So can't wait to hear a little bit more about how you unlock your growth mindset. Hey Tra, how are you hi Gary First and foremost, um most important thing I need to say to you Happy Birthday for tomorrow Gary Yes thank you very much Tomorrow the Big 48 Oh yeah.

okay so what are you going to do? Not much. I'm actually very weird. You know people find this very funny I'm very weird about my birthday I'm so out there and I I Don't think people realize this about me but like this is going to make people laugh I don't like being the center of attention when I don't think I did anything that merits being the center of attention and so this very weird relationship with my birthday because I'm like, you know, it's almost like I usually I really just want to spend time with my parents because I feel like it was their moment. You know, like in some weird way.

So anyway, very small family stuff. Looking forward to it. I Drake I Don't want to take up too much time on my birthday, especially because I'm a big fan of yours in the conversations we've had over the last three years. I Actually genuinely believe you know when we had had this I was like I really hope we can get her on the show for this one.

I Think you ooze growth mindset. You know we haven't had the luxury of really working together under the hood. but our conversations uh, during coid and as we've gotten to know each other I Really think it's in you I I think the word choices you use the way you talk about it so you know it's as big of a co-sign as give you're on this incredible brand now I mean Vans is like I'm sure everyone in the comments like get me some Vans I love Vans it's such an iconic brand. um you know I think Vans went from being a Cali thing it's got so much juice now in urban culture I'm actually curious myself when you think about growing or the growth mindset for Vans now like where can it go? what do you have to look for because it's almost like we're on the third bite of the apple with Vans right? it was very Surfer skateboarder dude.

now it's like crossed over into pop Urban culture like cool kids in the hood Rock Vans not just Jordans I'm actually curious. where do you go next? Yeah well. I think a great question I think a couple of things. one is to go back on the because: I'm I'm as you I'm obsessed with uh, the growth question.

uh and I think especially for people in our industry. It all starts with the belief right that brand elevation is leading to Brand growth is leading to revenue growth and you really need to believe in that. and I truly truly believe in that and then at the center of the brand elevation process. Um, because there's a recipe, right? Um is knowing who you are one knowing who your consumers are, but also when in that Dynamic knowing where you are and how you need to evolve to make sure that you're also part of the mindset of the future generation? Um, and it's it's really that tension with Um: Are you making the best decisions for what your brand stands for? Therefore, you need to know what it is in relationship to the consumer.

Do you know everything about the consumer and the culture that surrounds the consumer in relationship to the marketplace that they are or you are dealing with and that can be Global local. It can be a neighborhood right and I think that's really the the recipe for us as marketeers but also as Business Leaders to to secure the future of your brand and the relevancy but also um, the targets. Uh, the financial targets that come with it. What's the what? What do you think? What are the cliche roadblocks from actually going on? I Mean listen, growth mindset means offense versus defense.

You know? So you know from your perspective and knowing a little bit about your career, you get into a big big company like a Nike Some of the brands you're working on now have more. Nimble Budgets and realities. You know, the preciousness of the swoosh is almost impossible to touch, right? It gets very hard. What do you think of the roadblocks? You know Again, this program is so consumed by the majority.

Fortune 500 marketers and things of that nature. What is a Watch out Now that you've been through the game or or even more interestingly, give me a cliche watch out and how to navigate through it. I Think Watch out for all of us. It doesn't matter if your brand is big or your brand is small, it doesn't matter matter, the watch out.

and I see it all the time. I See it all the time is disconnecting from your consumers. Uh, is a big watch out stopping when people stop to have the obsession uh to know everything about their consumers and it's that combination of Art and Science Especially in this times of where we are right. Data are incredibly important, but you need to have the insights that come with intuition.

Intuition is based on experience. Experience is based on repetition to contextualize this data and then again over and over again. It doesn't matter if you're big and small when Brands evolve globally. Iconic, locally adopted personally.

Lov Brands And they have to. They can never forget where they come from, so it's really that tension as well that is quintessential. And if you, if you look to Vance right? First of all, as you said, we are the leading skateboarding brand. We're anchored in skateboarding.

It's our tagline of the wall right now. How do you then dimensionalize your authenticity and that vision of who you are towards different kind of audiences and there I Say the audiences that are creating the future not only the ones that took you all the way to where you are today. who was the first person you came across in your career that really showed you like oh, it's possible to do offense work and actually be consumer What you're saying is and which is I my probably why I align so much with you I I Just think that almost everyone is boardroom Centric and not actual consumer Centric We sit these fancy meetings talking that none of our customers care about and it's challenging because you want to uphold brand. But the problem is you need so much creative that's relevant to so many different consumer bases that people that want to uphold brand academically get stuck because they think like they are so literal literal around brand interpretation.

So if you if you stand for optimism, however they see optimism. they want to see it every video and picture. But like for me: I Think losing is an optimistic framework I Think being able to lose makes me optimistic about you. But I could imagine me showing a video to somebody who says our brand start stands for optimism and I show you a little league baseball game and a 9-year-old loses and strikes out and starts crying that you're going to see something you're going to be like what the hell are you talking about Gary And I'm going to say no, you don't understand.

This is the moment this nine-year-old became strong and resilient, which is the ultimate optimism that's challenging. How do we get around relevance in the face of people being literal in a boardroom and not consumer? Centric Oh my God. Um, that's for on your birthday for a couple of bottles of wine. I Can go this again.

The word Common Sense the word common sense, right? Um I I See it over and over. You look at data right and you're not able to contextualize data. There's a difference between the what and the how. In order to have the how to contextualize, you need to have experience in the field work and you truly truly need to be passionate about your consumers, be and about your brand.

Because if you connect those to in front of the opportunity, you're going to create new space. You're going to create um, things that don't exist yet, right? And new space We believe and I'm sure it come because we come from that school and uh again, one name I Definitely want to drop in in my career. there's a couple of them Trevor Edwards for sure um uh you know, taught us and again it's Nike culture as well. but also today someone Sandy Bodagger.

they were as much in the field and they were looking at data and it's really that combination that allows you then to say let's go to new spaces When you create new space, you will create future Revenue growth by then pulling it into the company and make and scale it right. And we all wholeheartedly, uh, coming from the school, we believe in that and we still believe in that today. Um, there's a lot of things that have changed since. thousands and thousands of years of humanity.

There's things that haven't changed, right? The fact that you need to create new opportunities because that's also what Innovative thinking is about to Then say, how are we going to capitalize on it and build a new uh, products of the future concepts of the future right? Um and I and I truly truly believe in that. as a grow driver and as a brand innovator, it's great to see See you again Have the best week bye thank you Tia the comments were going wild Gary I see it I'm reading them out here. Thank you so much. Good rest of the show all right Happy Birthday a little early I Wantan to give Jill a big kiss big hug the background All right.

gotta run see you all right. See you all right? we're gonna bring up Mima Johnson M Where are you hello hello Oh my goodness oh you got the you got the deep voice going on. Oh I totally planned that I like it I like it so Mya is a group creative director one of my faves and she is going to lead a conversation one with one of our dear friends Jill Crest who is the chief marketing and experience officer at H&R Block She's leading tons of transformation and she's come from some great Brands including PayPal National Geographic MasterCard and more. I'll leave it to you two ladies! Amazing! Thank you so much! Andrea and Hello Jill thanks for joining us hi MAA Great to be here, thanks for having me of course and thanks for uh thanks for joining us! um I know we have such a short amount of time but I actually wanted to jump off of one of the things that um Andrea was sharing in her intro of you So as everybody heard you have an incredibly impressive background and you could have really had your choice of roles so would love to hear why how you chose H&R Block to help you grow in your career and what you want to accomplish.

Yeah! I Love brands that are doing big jobs for consumers and the H&R Block which has historically been a tax preparation company is really at the Um the has a front a front row seat into what is happening with middle income Americans today through the lens of their tax return and I Just thought it was a really fascinating opportunity to be a part of the next chapter of what's happening at H&R Block The tax moment for most Americans is the most significant financial moment of their year. 75% Well, you know, good or bad right? 75% of Americans actually get a refund and so just that job that we do for consumers to ensure that it is, um, you know it is done right. It is done effectively that they get every credit they get every deduction. So that was really interesting.

I Love brands that do real jobs for real consumers. And then the other thing that I loved about it was to continue to grow as a marketer, to really bring together my experience which has largely been working in the digital space and driving consumer growth and connecting that in the opportunity that we have at H&R Block to bring what we do digitally into what happens physically through our 10,000 retail locations. So really honing kind of how do you do Omni Channel marketing and bring together online and off CL data through the lens not only of marketing but of creating really great, seamless connected experiences. And it's a brand in transformation which I love Oh I Love Oh my gosh, there's so much mey stuff so much there.

Yes I Feel like the L luckiest marketer out there to have this job for sure. And I think it's so interesting. Like you said, there's so few opportunities where you get to work on something where literally everyone in America has to participate right? Like nobody can get out of doing their taxes. So that's such a cool opportunity as a marketer.

Yes, um. one thing I wanted to dig on and we're even seeing a little bit of this in the comments. So uh, I I Love the hype that we're getting, but um, being a Fe female CMO and we've seen some pretty incredible ones on the show here. Today is unfortunately a pretty small Club even still.

um and it's even more rare, especially in the financial services space. so a huge kudos to you for making your mark there. but we'd love to hear what other advice or what advice you have for other women who are trying to get to the top of their fields, especially if they're in ones that are also very male-dominated Yeah! I Feel I'm really fortunate to have grown up in such supportive corporate environments. whether it was at, you know, MasterCard National Geographic PayPal now very much at HR Block I Think the thing that has been really core to my growth has been investing in relationships and really building connections across the companies that I worked in and I I spent 20 plus years at MasterCard I really grew not only as an executive there, but as a person and as I Look back on that.

So much of what fostered that growth was investing in peer relationships, investing in relationships. Um, with Executives and really through the organization, so up, across, down and really pushing the boundaries of my curiosity and ensuring that I was always learning. And so that meant building relationships for example, at a global company with people in you know, regions outside of the US so I could understand, you know how I could apply something that was happening in a growth market like Brazil for example to what was happening in the US and that Curiosity meets relationship. Really I think has been one of the the core elements of how I was able to to bring growth to how I thought about my role and to the company because I had a lot of those connections and so I think there's an incredible return on relationship and I think is women were really well sorted to to do that and to just get out there authentically.

Um, be curious, learn, and really don't underestimate the importance of relationships and not with those that you just work with every day. Really doing that extensively so that you're learning and you have context that allows you to participate more effectively and bring a real point of view into meetings. Oh I Love I Love oh my God I Wish we had like a whole hour just to chat about this I Guess that's my question to your point of like the Curiosity that you've brought the things that you are trying to cultivate through your relationships and grow that way. What? what's next for you I Feel like you've accomplished so much? Um, you know what would you say are the things that you really want to grow in next as you look towards the Transformations that you are working towards at H&R Block Gosh, there's so much that's happening, both in what we're doing in marketing our brand and continuing to build on the incredible trust that we have and that important job that we do for consumers, but to disrupt ourselves to continue to find ways to be very customer.

Centric Um I Love the work we're doing with you guys at Boehner to really unlock the opportunity of audience growth. Um, we're really excited about that this year, particularly given how challenging it is financially for Americans you know, really understanding what is not only on the hearts, but on the minds of our audiences. Whether we're trying to win with uh, you know, students who are just entering the workforce? um, you know, single moms who are just struggling to get by. So really unlock unlocking the power of audience is something that I'm really excited about.

And the other thing is as a leader, I'm really focused on how I lead my team I'm fortunate to work with some incredible marketers I've got a really great team and I think for my next period of of growth as a leader, it's really being there to support them and to really challenge how I've showed up. Um, how I empower how I challenge and how I work across my organization to really encourage them to unlock growth and and work more closely together. So I'm really focused on my legacy of leadership at at this period as well. My God I Love that I know we only have a few more minutes left so we're gonna wrap it up really quickly, but would love if you have any parting words or final advice coming off of our previous question.

for other women who are just starting to grow in their career, Is there anything that you wish somebody would have told? Um Junior Jill if you will when in marketing. Um, that would be helpful listening here. Uh, today. Absolutely.

I think if I could go back and talk to Young Jill One of the things that I was so clear on when I started was what I had to do I was very ambitious I'm an oldest child I wanted to win I still love to win. The thing that I learned throughout my career was that it's not only about what you contribute, it's about how you do that. And so I think for me as a leader it was was really unlocking that not only curiosity about business and about uh, culture and and how we could win, but curiosity about myself. How was I being perceived? How was I being seen as a leader? and I think for all of us, that combination of not only the wins that you're getting on the board as far as what you're delivering, but how Are you delivering it and those who know me well know that you know I Move fast and one of my continual areas of improvement is to slow down to speed up and just checking in with myself and being vulnerable.

like learning about what you're not doing well to inform how you can be a better leader. that's a really I love that I think that's great Parting words of learning as much from what's not working or what you're not doing well as as what you get praised for is one of the things that I feel like it takes so long to learn and I wish somebody would have just told me from the beginning so it matters what in the how oh my God Amazing! Jill You have been phenomenal as you have been throughout your whole career and what you're transforming at AG our block So thank you so much for your time today! I Really appreciate it. The comments are blowing up. um everybody wants to hear more from you so we'll have to do a part too.

but Andrea I'll turn it back over to you. You guys got nice and personal it it it means a lot and you're right people. people want to hear it they want. they want the clues about how they can get ahead right? but in the right way.

Love Loved all of it. Love you both! Thanks for joining us Bye thank you All right Next up we have Nick meas he's the chief client officer at V going how we doing I'm inspired I'm inspired today Goosebumps on these last few aw it's been good right? We got a great lineup and the next one I Can't wait for this conversation. This is Big. This is Big.

I mean it, it is. It's Crayola It's funny because when I was on the on Jim Stingle podcast, he asked me what was the first brand that I fell in love with and who I mean Crayola it's just so iconic. Um, and Nick I don't know if you looked at the list of responsibilities that Vicki has and I don't want to take up too much time because it's a very long list. but let's see, she's uh, she is in charge of all things marketing activation, digital strategy, and she focuses on consumer Communications social digital Omni Channel interactive app, portfolio, education, marketing, and Crayola Studios I'm kind of curious about that one.

Uh, but I'm going to let you guys lead the conversation because I know this is going to be a special one gr mindset and an Ever growing list of responsibilities it sounds like Victoria Thank you so much for joining us! This is a real treat. Um, one of my favorite, most loved brands Have the memories encoded hardwired into my brain from when I was five. So um, let's have some fun. It's a quick 10 minutes so we'll do a little bit of lightning round.

but for everybody, shake it off a little bit. We're in the middle of these interviews. Leave in the comments right now. what is your favorite? Crayola Color Let's go No question Wisteria I Know some people are going to have to look it up, but is a like a liil like shade of purple.

All right. Wisteria For everybody out there, put it in the comments Now we're gonna look at this afterwards. We're gonna compare the data on this. Um, all right.

growth mindset. Crayola is one of the most iconic Brands ever. Um, you've been doing a long time. How do you think about staying relevant, stacking the growth on top of the decades and generations? You know it's a big first question, but uh, what do you think? Yeah, Well, first of all, a big task, right? First of all, don't screw it up.

Second of all, how do you find a way to actually leave it better than you found it? Um, actually this year Crayola turned 120 years old. It's our birthday year and um, when it was originally found o do we have a connection issue to K potential? So as we kind of looked at how Crayola has evolved over those 120 years, the key for us has been find and be really, really clear about what's sacred and then don't mess that up. Whatever you do, don't mess that up. And as you can imagine, a lot of those things have to do with the with the brand.

but then also be clear on what's flexible and that a lot of it has to do with the business model. And there's a way to find a combination where you fearlessly protect the brand while you continue to drive and evolve the business model in a way that 120 years later Crayola is still as vibrant, um, as successful. It's continuing to grow. and you know, just very recently, a completely independent study has Um rated it as number three most culturally resonant brand.

Beyond Um, only Amazon and Google So a lot to be proud off Um and to continue to push to get that growth. Oh my goodness. All right. So there are certain things we hold sacred.

Then there's Evolution of Business model. Talk to us about Innovation You know, like the color, proliferation, new markets, new business units. You know? how do you all think about Innovation new news for driving growth for you know, a brand that when we close our eyes we can see it. We can smell it.

You know? Um, sure. Inov? sure. Well first of all, Innovation as for any business really critical, it's Paramount But I think what's been really key for us is not to think about as product Innovation Um it is absolutely true that Crayola has amazing designers, scientists, marketeers who who Envision and design this amazing Innovation But what's really been kind of breakthrough for us as a company is to add to that and think about our business model as that that includes products, experiences and content. And when you think about Innovation across all of those levers and the amount of opportunity Partnerships things that it's opened up for the brand has been incredible.

So I say Innovation Absolutely. But I think we found a way to think about Innovation that has really unlocked tremendous growth for us. And what's the process like I think that's where our audience might really love to go. a little deeper is like is it somebody has a thought on a Saturday it's like I think we should go do this Is it? We put ideas and Concepts into focus groups like how do you get there? how's the sausage made high level without giving away all the Trade Secrets Victoria Can you hear us Okay yes I froze there for a little bit but it looks like I'm back hopefully I am I think you're back.

Yeah, we can hear you. Did you hear the question or no? We'll give it a second. Yeah. I can hear you? You can can you hear me? Yeah, cool.

So um I'll just I'll re I'll restate. Um, what's the process like around Innovation Is it you all sit around in ideate together? you go out into the world to learn more about what the consumer wants. Um, you know without giving away the trade secret? How does it? How does it work? Yeah, look I Think it's all the above. You know it's it's.

not going to be surprising for me to say that. great ideas and Innovation can come from anywhere. but I Think to me, the key thing is really, sometimes S as marketers, we tend to get caught up in thinking about what we want to say or what we want to bring in the marketplace. But if you think about it from a consumer point of view, what is it that they need to hear what is the true need or an opportunity or what that can we do to be truly helpful? I Think that can sometimes unlock a very different way of thinking about whether it's communication, whether it's actual Innovation Uh, something more concrete, but really opening that up and taking it from a consumer point of view? Um, and then putting your brand lens as a second layer? Super cool.

Um, let's switch gears a little bit knowing you know time is short. Um, on the culture side of things, you know what happens in the four walls. How do you as a leader and the other leaders of the company? Inspire The growth mindset. You know if you come to Crayola Is it you know a know known that we are here to grow? You know we are.

You know, Um, that type of an organization? Yeah, is that like hardcoded into the DNA Well couple of thoughts. First, when you said the growth mindset I mean I think the the operative word is mindset and I'll give you an example. if you go to Histo to Crayola historical archives and you put in some operating plans from 1980s, what you will read is language and I almost literally quote that says Crayola is an evergreen brand with limited growth potential. So when you think about it that way, what do you think you're going to get right and now fast forward 40 years and nothing could be further from the truth.

So this word mindset and reframing your perspective I think is just so powerful because you know how as that expression goes, you reap what you saw right. and um, and I think it is a lot about your perspective, your mindset, how you think about your brand, How do you think about your business, what business you think you're actually are in, Um, really identifying the orthodoxies that you might have and really flushing that out and figuring out how they might getting in the way and frankly, sometimes getting out of your office. And and I don't necessarily mean literally, some of us are in offices more than others, but literally talking to people who aren't living always and breathing and are always in the same conversations that are sort of tangential to your business that give you a different perspective and maybe flip how you think about certain things on its head. I Think if you put those dots and connect those dots and put those things together, you can often come up with some really fresh new ways of thinking about how you can reframe and change your perspective and can open up a lot of opportunities.

And you know, and you asked about culture I would say is that is so important because you know culture in the business is a lot like a river, right? It's used to flowing a particular way, um and kind of being able to reroute it sometimes is not that easy. but you have to be prepared for a lot of change management. And I think you have to have a combination of a leader or or some leaders who really lay out the vision to lay out the path. That is not always a consensus based exercise, but the implementation is absolutely that takes a village and the entire organization needs to be involved to get there.

So being able to balance those I think is where you can unlock some really powerful growth and help reframe how you think about your business. Oh my goodness. I mean let's end on that. That's a high note.

I Love the analogy of the river you know, can't really s very true though, right? But um so so thankful for you joining the show. Um, what's let's close with this? what's big? looking ahead now that you're 120, what's gonna happen the next hundred years? What's your forecast with Crayola Hey, we're gonna continue to lean in. We're gonna continue to to look at amazing products, collaborations, experiences whether it's interactive retail. uh, Lbe is a really, you know, fantastically growing part of our business.

and you mentioned um before Crayola Studios Um, you know Crayola Announced our new Venture into entertainment and bringing our mission and our purpose to life in in entertainment and connecting with kids and families in that way as well. So going to be a lot of more exciting things coming from. Crayola Awesome! I'll leave you with one idea on the growth mindset. yeah more paper table cloths.

So I have a one-year-old and she already loves to draw on the table. I mean it's a use case like just get rid of the cloth tablecloth and business is going to Boom So jul not it. it's going to to that to the Innovation team today right? Get it there! Beautiful! Thank you thank you thank you truly appreciate it. Thanks for having me bye All right I'm joining team W area.

it's official. Oh wow I didn't know thing team is where it's at. We are the strong blue I Love it! The questions in the chat were pretty phenomenal including all right how many people have actually ate a cray when they were a little kid? little kid. What about adult? A staple.

Good appetizer that was fascinating I Love that one. Nick Thanks for joining us. All right Cool, we see youat all right. See you soon! All right.

Next up we have one of my dear friends Sarah Rodell who is the CEO and founder of Loop Andai. She's dialing in from Austin Texas how's it? How's it going? Sarah Sarah Oh I'm so happy to be here. What a good day to get to spend together! I Know it is and the funny thing is Sarah and I have been celebrating World Kindness Day for a couple years now. It feels it feels like even more than a couple years.

But um really excited to have you on the show today to talk a little bit more about what you're doing at Loop and Thai and how the growth mindset, how you you know sort of have lived that across you've you founded lop and Thai 12 years ago so would love to hear as an entrepreneur your whole perspective on the growth mindset. But first I want you to tell people a little bit about what Loop and Thai is sure? So, Loop and Thai is a giftgiving platform and our mission and vision behind what we're building is to turn any corporate gifting whether it's gifting to clients, employees um, all those people in your commercial sphere, um, turn all that spend into a social impact engine. Uh, so the way we do that is through letting our customers send choices of gifts so their recipients get to pick out what they want and all of the options are really thoughtfully curated and have beautiful stories behind them. so you know it's it's interesting.

So full disclosure: Uh, Vayner has been working with Loop and Thai for two years now and it's really transformed the way that we look at gifting for a number of reasons. I Think we fell into the bucket that maybe a lot of businesses did, where for some reason we just don't act like humans when we're looking at gifting, um, in the in the corporate world And so you helped us to not only deliver a platform that makes it super easy um, but you kind of changed our whole perspective on how we build relationships and how we can think about making connections in a way that does have some social impact. but also I don't know, just allows us to get closer to people in ways that's that are I Think much more interesting and sustainable too. Would love love your perspective on, you know kind of the the big nature of trying to change.

um, a current that's as as you know, deep-seated as that one in terms of corporate gifting. And and you know what that why you even decided to do that 12 years ago? Well, first good on you guys for modeling that growth mindset and being being willing to explore and shift and change. Um, because that's kind of the name of the game. Um, but I I Love talking about corporate gifting.

Um, in the sense of understanding. Um, it as sort of this metaphor of a larger space of formality that often exists within any sort of client. you know, employee relationship where we sort of have this way of doing it that's always been a certain way. It's sort of the thought accounts mentality.

Um, and that is becoming less and less relevant. Um, it's not just the thought that counts anymore. People are looking for something that is more substantial than that. and gifting to me, is this really I call it an acupuncture point in the system where if you hit this one point, it just sort of filters out and touches all these other things.

Um, and and I think that because it's really the quality of, uh, how you connect in these particular moments that can influence the tenor of the rest of your relationships. And if you're giving someone something only when you want something that's gonna have a flavor, right versus if you're doing it just because it feels good just because a part of your brand, your growth mindset, your nature is to celebrate s um, that comes through and those are the kinds of experiences and those are the kinds of actions that end up building lifelong brand fans and lifelong relationships. Yeah, you know it's interesting because Gary has always been a big subscriber to looking at. yeah, how are you showing up um, and and and doing that through Surprise and Delight Or you know, just showing that you care about people at different times, not just because it's the holidays which is typically when, especially in corporate gifting.

You see that everybody sends their gifts. You know in in the December time frame the same way and you know, yeah, the same way. And so you know we've been able to. I Love the platform because you make it so easy to be able to send things out around the world.

Um, but to allow people to pick the gift that they want and they can give to a philanthropy. Or they can pick a fair trade you know, collection or whatever it might be. But we really love the idea of celebrating something that's not celebrated. World World Kindness Day.

Um, and to your point. this year you helped us in taking it to a different level where we took to the streets around the world and just talked to people about kindness. Didn't even mentioned that they were going to get a gift and then we gave them a you know, we gave them a loop and tie um link so that they can go and pick their own gift and it was so shocking to so many people. and it it um and they're now gifting.

They're paying it forward as well which is a cycle. What happens, you know? and I have to tell you I Don't know if I've ever told you this, but um, the thank you economy was one of those seeds of just at the beginning when I was thinking about starting the company just having that concept of how we are starting to expect different things from businesses and what that's going to mean for how we connect was one of those you know years ago um, light bulb moments that I was like oh my gosh, yeah and gifting is a part of that and the way that we approach gifting and how we can move into this onetoone space while still honoring the scale requirements. And you know the the ways that um, we're you know, of course interacting with more networks than ever. Um, but we're not.

We don't have the patience to be treated in a way that feels, um, like a formality which I'm glad for. Good job Humans. Yeah, good job Humans. Yeah for something I don't want to be treated like another Cog in the wheel? Absolutely not.

So tell us more about your story that you know as an entrepreneur, you know standing up a business from scratch and looking at the various chapters of growth, how have you been able to, you know kind of graduate from from one stage of your company into you know the next and continue to grow? You know there's so many themes there and I'm such a different person than I was at the beginning and I think one of the biggest things that I've given myself Grace on is at the beginning I was trying to copy everyone else in the sense of like, oh, you know I was 25 I was like what do you what do you what? What does being in business look like right? like like trying to just um, you know everything I read I was like okay, this person knows better than I know and and really kind of giving away my own um, point of view I think a little bit too easily and over the course of the time that I've been developing this business and you know, of course as we develop anything, we're also developing ourselves right? Um, really kind of leaning into that space of trust um, around what may feel good for me or what may feel good for Loop and TI that might be totally different than anything I've seen any company do um, than anything I've seen any other leader do and having that okay, um and that's taken. You know, for me, that's been a lot of exploration. a lot of burnout on. You know it's really exhausting to try and take a model that works for someone else and retrofit it for yourself.

and I think it takes a lot of time doing that to be like. you know what? this? this isn't working for me. You know what do what do I need and what does this business need? And also, you know every that every time you move move a chess piece, the board changes a little bit right and so understanding the dynamic that we're working in. Um, you know we've gone through so many different massive macro changes um, and cultural changes over that period of time.

and so I Think not having a growth mindset um for me and and being more in that reactive space was just not going to work. And so the way I internalize. Okay, what does it mean to be in a growth mindset? Um, it's really just every day being curious about what worked for me the day before that might not work today. What works for someone else that I can learn from but might not work for me and really kind of individualizing and personalizing the experience of information and then coming up with the version that works for you.

you know? I Love that. Uh yeah, it's almost like learning how to treat yourself like a human as well. And one thing I'll say about you Sarah is that you're so generous with everyone around you that you collect good people and that the exchange you get from that is you know is is pretty incredible. You're always helping to give me ideas and then I can tell other people want to give you ideas too just because you are that that person, that human, that leader.

Um, and so you know it's It's kind of ironic that we do this on World Kindness Day, but but you are one of the kindness kindest. Uh, Business Leaders I know and it's nice to see how that can be. You know it can create momentum for others as well. Speaking of momentum, it sounds like uh, you have a little something to share with our audience.

Yes, Um, so on this World's Kindness day, um, we want to empower as many people as possible to do random acts of kindness for others. Uh, so we have a web page at our URL which is Loopen Tha.com Kindness where you can nominate someone that you want to send a gift to um to celebrate them. and um, it doesn't have to be for any reason at all just because you love them. And so we're gonna go through those and send out as many gifts as we can.

Fantastic! Well that's that's so wonderful. Thank you so much for joining and for giving us all that gift. Just yes! Yes! Well, thank you for having me and thanks for recognizing this day. It's so fun! Oh thank you Sarah We will see you very soon! All right bye All right Thanks everybody for joining this show! Uh we are going to have one more celebration of marketing for the now to close out the year and that's going to be on December 5th at noon So please come back, bring your friends and uh have a great world kindness day.

Thanks for joining us Bye- bye.