Question: An amazing lineup of CEOs Founders and experts. This is marketing for the now hear me than you. So much that made Mead happy New Year Happy New Year Can we still say that or not I Say it until February 1. Okay, all right then we got that.

I Love that whatever was going on out there in the pit, what was that? What was that? There's always so much chaos now that I'm live streaming on Twitch and there's just always stuff going on. Andre Because Monday we're always evolving and and progressing. Look at. Look at your, look at your title there.

look at me and my fancy title. This is so exciting by the way. I was on that recording on Monday where uh, where? you're reaching out to all the Instagram guys telling them to get the over to Twitch Right now. That's exactly right we're actually it's really fun unlocking creators and culture.

Obviously we'll go into it, but let me just make this statement for everybody: Live Streaming: This is the year of Live streaming. Tik Tock Shop Tik Tock Live Twitch Um, even if you're doing what I'm doing, I'm literally Twitch streaming in my office all day. 90% of it has no audio. wow but it's like background ASMR for entrepreneurs and Executives I unmute at times and say what's up, we do random fun stuff and I for me.

obviously where I'm at. hundreds and hundreds of people watch that which is not thousands and thousands and tens and tens of thousands like I'm normal because of course it's can only be so comp compelling of it's if it's unmute. but the same can be said for everybody else and maybe six people watch you or 12 people watch you but you build from that and then obviously people wish I was doing this when I was building. Wine Library I'd be unmuted the whole time and I would be streaming for 12 hours a day I think live streaming live stream shopping.

it's the Rave I Highly recommend it. Yeah and it's cool how you're were talking about how there's so many people that are working from home and they can just have it sort of on and that there's all kinds of use cases now that are so different from before and you know super fire up that this topic is a really great one to kick off the year with. and we're hearing from tons of Brands different experiments that they have and how they're looking at who creators actually are and trying to bring in their their consumers and their customers in all kinds of different ways. and all the changes on the platforms as well, right? So lots of cool stuff today that's for sure it's gonna be a great show.

I Also want to say for everybody who's watching who's either a CMO or a senior executive or an entrepreneur with let's say a business doing 10 million in Revenue a year. So big business or more? Uh obviously you see Andrea's new title. We are up to something. You'll be hearing a lot more for me and us.

But if you fit that profile, especially the the 10 million year or more Revenue businesses I think I I Think what we're up to me, you James Orini We've got something pretty profound coming from Vayner X and uh I'm really proud of you and excited Andrea Well thank you I Couldn't be more more fired up, especially hit hitting 2024. It's gonna be a big year across the board, but it feels like there's a huge opportunity to bring our communities together and we've got so much. Firepower Whether it's with entrepreneur or Fortune 500 and not just the sea. Suite But you know all those that are on the rise in their community in their careers, how we can help everybody out.

um, and learning about things like this. You know, what's the latest in marketing, but also how can we be happy while we're growing our careers? And you know that's something? that the only way to grow something sustainably is to be good emotionally yourself? That's right. Yeah, how can we learn to love ourselves and and create cultures that aren't all based on fear, right? A lot of the big ones. That's what they they unfortunately really thrive on I Think that's right I Think that's right Anyway, creators and cultures.

My final part before I let you take over the show. Um, relevance is the biggest opportunity for every business if something's relevant to them, then they consider a buy it and many people are missing the mark on relevance. And I think popular culture, culture, pop culture and creators. creators only live on relevance.

They don't have as much awareness yet they're building, but they win on. relevance is a topic every marketer uh who Tunes in for marketing now should understand. and I think we have a crazy lineup and I'm excited for the show. It's going to be good.

Um Gary Just one question for you though. like as as you're looking at the work that we do and everybody. every brand wants to bring creators in right? but it feels like the dynamic and how you you know how do you get the best out of a relationship with a Creator Are there any any things that you think people should be mindful of? Yeah, I mean you have to give them complete freedom and every brand doesn't want to do that. If you don't like what they're going to do, then you don't have to pay them and you can cancel it.

But you've got to let them have freedom because they built their Audience by knowing Their audience and they know it will be authentic and your brand doesn't want to be associated with them anyway if they mail it in. that's what a bad endorser is influencer is. So the the one thing I would say to everybody is you got to let go Your brand is not in control with you to begin with. Now go search your brand on Instagram and Tik Tok Right now you're control anyway.

So let someone who you've chosen make it relevant. and if you don't like where they're going with it, you don't have to have it posted or go out. but you got to give them 100% creative freedom. And what about um, on the platform side, you've got your book that's upcoming.

Uh, underprice attention? What are you? what are you seeing now? Any any tips or things that people should be thinking about? Yeah, like when I Think about the new book day trading attention I Think about its platform and its culture. Obviously we'll talk about culture here. But to your point, Platform: Why is live streaming matter to me? Why are images with certain fonts working on? Instagram Why do the first three seconds of this have to be like that on? Facebook So creative strategy. The science around the art is the next.

Frontier of battling for organic reach, brand awareness, relevance, and occasional virality. and um, I'm obsessed with all of it. And so to answer a question like of the second, uh, images are over indexing on Instagram again in a way that's interesting. Um, uh, green screen videos.

So taking an image and then being a human talking over it continues to over index the Baseline of Organic Reach. Those two things stand out all right. They call me over I Gotta go do your show. Love you, Love you All right It's time to bring up MMA Johnson MMA Where are you? Hello is happy Thursday Well happy Thursday and I hear you're calling in live from Long Island City is that right here in our fabulous studio in Long Island City We got 're shoting some fun video stuff over here.

Oh my goodness. Well M about it now but it's coming okay. sounds good. we'll keep mom's a word.

Mya is one of my absolute faves. She is SVP of creative Excellence Um does just Stellar work and very excited to bring up our first guest today. Ashley Cole She's the VP and this this is a title. This is a title Ashley Content, strategy, development and distribution at Visa Uh, just amazing And she's an award-winning Global content and media leader and she's got quite this.

the history both in finance as well as in Tech Having come from Intel Microsoft and Charles Schwab were so fired up to have you on the show Ashley Take it away guys! Good to see you, how are you Ashley I'm great! It's so nice to talk to you and just so everybody who's watching knows Ashley is not only a super experienced and talented marketer, she's also one of the most lovely people you'll ever meet. So please please reach out and say hello. Um, and she's an incredible creative partner. But I'm so glad that you're joining us today as we talk about unlocking creators in culture.

And I think for you, you have such a unique take because you've worked in, you know, the financial part of marketing for so long. So I'd love for you to kick us off as the first guest on marketing for the Now in the New Year. Um, if you could just talk a little bit about the role that creators play not just in culture, but in driving the economy and really why that's so important for Visa Yeah, Uh, so happy to be here! Thank you so much for having me! and I'm very passionate about talking about creators. not because we've nailed it, but because I think it's such an interesting part of the marketing ecosystem for us right now.

and so thank you for having me. Um, well why does Visa care is a is a good question? or why do I care even as a marketer? and I think the the key thing I think about is like all this wonderful creativity and all this creativity that's in platforms and Gary just talked about Twitch which is incredible that live streaming live is huge, events are huge. We can talk about that more but I think one of the things that's interesting is that creators need to get paid right? There is a friction in the system about like how you get paid and the way you get paid. and and we care about um the Creator economy and the way that they're making money and how to take friction and complexity out of it and how to make transactions um more attainable and so they can get back to creating and more energy into that.

So we think of it as a virtuous sort of Circle of uh creators being small businesses and they're trying to make it in their in their pursuit of their next steps in their journey and we're here to help them do that. um you know one step at a time and Bea the way they get paid. So that's how we no I think that that's super important and as a as a creative um myself not I wouldn't necessarily call myself. it's interesting because it's it's it's the biggest thing that you care about as a you know human in the world but it's the thing that gets talked the least about and to your point is is the biggest pain point and you know I'm sure we've seen Tik toks and you know tons of creators talking about that process.

so with that um would love for you to talk a little bit about what Visa has been and I know will be continuing to do um to connect to creators um you know in a real way and again to your point make it easier to pay and get paid. um if you're you're will to talk about those programs of course of course from A from just from a Um support system. We've got two programs that we have and one is called the Visa Creator program and that's that's geared towards entrepreneurs who are are working in art, music, fashion, film are serious about incorporating Nfts in their business model. or they just mentioned Nfts and I Know that's not like the topic dour but it's really critical to think about like well what? how do we help you with that because it's all you know digital currency and how do we help you with there? We also have a Visa ready um Commerce program and this helps Creator Centric platform Partners Like social video gaming companies, all and everything in between because it's not just okay.

Well, it's just the big platforms and it's Visa It's A. There's a lot of technology that comes in between that we partner with everybody. we're we're we're about that. Really partnering with an ecosystem to help people get get paid.

um but that helps you with tools and um and sort of features like creater payouts and yeah, subscriptions and other ways to get connected to ecosystem players so you can find a way to get paid. and I think that's great from marketing Point Um, we did A. We recently did a program in in three regions so North America um in uh the Middle East and also in Europe around. um what we call a get paid program and and it was.

It was matching it. It understood that there was this unmet need about like I just need some advice right? if you're on your way to making it, but you just need to like get some advice from those who have you know, how do we create kind of a series of content that helps creators learn about you know how to make it. And so we paired um Rising Stars with others who have made it in food, fashion and oh gosh, what was the last one? Food, fashion, and music music? Yes! Thank you. And we, uh um, we brought them together to just sort of exchange ideas and help, um, help each other kind of understand how to work.

We've did it across platforms, but what's great about that content is it's accessible to everybody and you kind of get some good tips and tricks on how to how to get from one place to another. So we were trying to fill this sort of mentorship Gap too that exists. So we do two things. we try and create marketing um programs with creators that helps them Thrive And we also have real, you know, real tangible product connections for creators.

So back and look at some of that content because I could use it myself. Good I know Yeah, um and that's one of the things I Was gonna say that I think is so interesting is the way that you all have been able to take what are truly pretty complex topics right when we talk about the Creator Economy: When we talk about getting paid, when we talk about finances, those are all things that I think people automatically just tune out out to because they feel like they're getting lectured to or they feel like it's too complex to understand. And I think that's something that you and the Visa team have done an extraordinary job of is taking these things that feel very overwhelming and that people don't want to talk about and breaking them down into really easily accessible, understanding, understandable ways and putting them on forums whether that's Tik Tok Instagram other social media outlets and make them easily accessible which I think is is so so important. Um, with that, I I Wanted to ask you a little bit about.

you know, knowing what you know and your experience with working with creators. What are some of the things that you think the biggest brands, whether in finance or outside of that sector get wrong about creators and how to talk to and connect to them? Yeah, I um I love this question because I think it's we're all work in progress like this is about. Well, how do you partner with anyone who is an internal right? You have your own culture and a in a company? Uh, we do too. At Visa it's actually a really great place to work so just want to give that a a moment of I It is a really great place to collaborate and work with people in a global company.

so hats off to Visa from that standpoint. But we have our own culture, right? So if you're saying Hey listen, I'm going to partner with other people. whether that's creators or even agencies like how do you create the best relationships And I think one of the pieces of advice I'd have for you know ourselves at Visa and for any other brand is that: Um, don't make this about a transaction like make this about a relationship. Make this about a relationship you have with a creator.

Um, find out what is interesting to them or what they're really. You know they they're They're very expressive about what they're interested in, but understand their story, understand their steps to making it really get a a feeling for what what they're about, and that makes it far easier to create a mutual place of trust and growth for each other. So you're not just transacting for you know, hey, to talk about my brand or talk about my product or please sell, it's about. you know what are we doing together? Overall I can help you.

You can help me. We're in a relation relationship and that's where. um, the content really thrives in an authentic space. Um, when you're not just transacting, you're partnering.

No, that's really important. And again, I think that's especially important you know in the financial sector where it can feel so cold and I think that's something that you guys have been doing a great job of breaking down the barriers of so amazing advice for uh, all of the the CMOS that are on this call. um I know we're uh, we're going to run out of time quickly. But I did have one last question.

Again, in the spirit of you being the first guest of the New Year and everybody's intention setting, um, what do you think are the biggest opportunities for Brands to be relevant for creators? Yeah, um I This is a recent uh, feeling for me. that and I've been talking a lot about with my team. I've been talking a lot about with your teams is that I really think that? um, real life events are actually very interesting space for us to think about from a Content standpoint. So I have the you know content, strategy, development, distribution.

What this means is I care about what we make and how we distribute it as one thing and the strategy around it. and now I'm increasingly thinking about what the opportunity is around an event. Now we're all in real life or you know, mostly back in the office or there's a lot more travel or this and that like. But I think that there's this hybrid of what do you learn in digital which is great today that we're all learning and talking in digital worlds.

but also what do you learn in real life? I Think marketers have an amazing opportunity around what kind of content you can create on an event If you do that purposefully and you think about not only the moment in time and who's there and how to get how to kind of create content with strategy and then also create an evergreen content um, strategy from that event. I think um, you can go places. This is not just events that you make for yourself or industry events, but it's also events you participate in so they can up kinds of flavors and so I've been thinking a lot about that in 2024 as I think about our calendar ahead. we Visa are um, sponsors of the Olympics which is an enormous event for us.

Um, so we're thinking a lot about what happens before that and during. but it's also other places and spaces that we're thinking about in real life. and I I think the connection between people is needed. you know? Oh my.

God people are craving that. and I think that's why the Olympics are gonna be so big this year is because it's kind of like that first big event I Don't want to say postco I don't know when that happened, but um, the other thing that I just wanted to say to that point, that's just again a a tip for the other marketers that are watching this. Not only is it a smart um use of those dollars and a way to connect to people, it's really important because it also helps you drive down the cost of creative. I Know every person listening to this is thinking about how do I fuel the content machine and how do I continue to build my brand on Social? I Think one of the things that you guys have done extraordinarily well is use all of your sponsorships and your events.

Um, not only to Showcase Creators, but use it as an opportunity to create hundreds, sometimes thousands of pieces of content. you know in the event of the Olympics um to really fuel your social engine and create more opportunities to connect with them. So just small kudos for you guys. We're working on it.

It's always a work in progress. MMA I Love it. No, you're you're doing great. Um, no.

thank you so much. Ashley I Don't know if there's any you know. final thoughts: You want to add on just some of the work that you guys have been doing in in connecting creators and culture. but again, Visa is one of those beacons.

one of the biggest, most prominent brands in the world and you continue to lead the way here. So we are so honored to have you today and thank you for being our first guest on the show. It's a pleasure thank you for having me! Mya Good to see you! Cheers you too! Fabulous! J Oh my God What a Little Love Fest Over here. this is how we start the year.

Thank you so much Thanks Andrea Bye All right Next up we're going to have a conversation with two of my favorite Chief Brand officers. Let's bring up: Uh Miss Mary Kate McGrath I Love it! What a great combo we just witnessed I know it's all. it's juicy stuff. It's January It's a big year 2024 ready, ready to learn and expand and what a way to start the year.

Let's go All right Well, very excited to have our very dear o' join us. Chief Brand Officer of Mesa I Didn't realize that Mesa is the world's largest beauty incubator in Mass that's a that's a pretty that's a pretty, uh, a big statement there. um main portfolio company and she? oh, you've got quite the list of responsibilities here. Innov, Incubation, Brand marketing, Integrated Marketing and Creative Studio Doesn't sound like there'll be a shortage of conversation in this one.

Certainly not. Thanks for joining us! I'll I'll leave it up to you guys. Ah Thanks! Oh it's so good to see you again. How are you my dear? I'm good.

how are you? Thank you for having me! Oh we're so happy this is such a treat! Um I think Andrea nailed it. You oversee so many brands at Mesa and I think that people know those Brands individually but not maybe that they're under one roof. Will you Orient us again with the brands that are at Mesa and your role at the company? Yes, absolutely. Um I I Do love to say I'd never have a dull moment.

You know there's every part of my brain that's functioning in different capacities. So as um as Andrea already mentioned, you know all consumer touch points. um, reporting to me. So whether that is any product that we developing, whether that's a new brand new product Innovation um creative Studio Who brings beautiful ideas to life? You know all the brand marketing efforts, integrated marketing press, social influencer, and then marketing operations.

So so all of it I Love it because it just helps me cut out the politics. the Everybody's In It Together We have a disagreement. We power out together. My five directors, we come together and we solve problems.

We move on. You know that's the best thing about having such a vast responsibility. You're able to cut through the crap pretty quickly versus having to politically navigate a lot. and I'm sure a lot of us have to deal with it myself.

And then the brand that we have is Christas. um Hair Care Um, it's it's um, it's a huge brand at Target and um now nationally available. We have Heritage Um, which is a brand that we've created with Mindy Mcknite who is the number one YouTuber Mom uh we have a brand with her daughters itk but also Drew Berry Moore's uh makeup brand uh Flower Beauty traj P Hansen's brand tph Hair Care being Frenchie which is a brand that we just launched with Ashley Tasell which to a huge success Target and then also lastly finery and cozy Place which are two homegrown fragrance brands that we have and this is not to mention the private label business that we do. but this is I think plenty for us to gr best.

It's incredible and your and your career has been highlighted by successes that across category in Beauty and it's it's just such an honor to have you. Is there a shared approach to using and employing creators at Mesa you know? um I would love to say yes. So I think the science of it is very similar right? Like how we're going to measure success. how are we going to create Kpis and Roi and like I think even in the previous conversation they were talking about that when you create your earned media and Creator L uh marketing you know your your overall paid performance improves because people are talking about you.

you're just a more relevant brand right? So in that the science of it very similar in terms of the team structures that supported very similar in terms of the Creator selection. very different Yeah right. Every brand has such a unique point of view in in how they want to operate it and we don't get in the way because relevance and cultural fit is so important because otherwise you're micromanaging and fine-tuning the content that comes to you. It never meets your expectations versus you kind of just have to lose in the Reign a little bit.

It's very uncomfortable. As a brand owner, you kind of just have to let go a little bit and and and let the brand and the creators do their thing which is hard right? I Mean because you're kind of saying this is our you know we talk about this a lot. right? that decisions shouldn't be left into the boardroom and that happens right? Like you've made this product and then you put it out into the world and someone else either loves it and or hates it. Obviously if you're employing creators, hopefully it becomes a nice flywheel.

But tell us about how you think about that or what's the. You talk a lot about culture and in the company. How do the brands think about that and release that kind of onus to over to the Creator right? I Think Um I think Overall, you know, just taking a step back back in the den. we were joking about it years ago, creating a TV ad and two print commercials.

Was it right? One year one TVC One year one TVC That was exactly my life and and you know it, just Brands Controll The Narrative And it was a one-way communication and we were talking at the consumer and over the years you know that pendulum swung and then pendulum became the influencer Le sort of model and and and that's where the it swung and I firmly believe that it's it's going to swing again and it's going to go into the user generated content space right? So the user space. So where the brands used to be in charge. now consumers are in charge. And and it is isn't just stating the true fact truism fact.

You know it is the actual truth of just what's happening. So I think as a brand, the as a brand manager. the only thing you can do to get in the way of the success of your brand is to get yourself in the way of the brand and the Creator right? So I think um I think just knowing that your brand no longer is a one-way communication, it no longer is what you're telling the consumer. It is a sum total of the content you put out there and the creators who speak of you.

right? So the goal that you should have is that how sharply defined have you created a brand? How sharply have you selected your influencers? Therefore, the communication that they're having about your brand actually fits into the larger picture for you. I Love it. So let's talk more about that sum total of that content that you described. Um, which I think is so relevant to the conversation.

Today, you recently had an incredible moment on Tik Tok You and I are huge fans of the platform, walk us through what happened and any learnings or insights for the for the mass audience that's here today of what happens when a creator takes hold of your brand or your product and and all things go as you want them to go. But what exactly happens inside your office and outside? No, absolutely so so so. Number one thing and it was Um, we started the year with being Frenchy going viral with one such content piece you know and it was just such an exciting moment. You're starting the year, you're just settling in and boom guns a viral moment and it was like yes, exciting.

We're going to go in front of the board and we can talk about it and and and actually saw the impact of that on Revenue as well. Literally two weeks in a row you saw greater than your typical run rates in terms of growth rates, right? So you you see a direct linkage and gives you more confidence that what you're doing is actually working. So what happened was uh, we of course you know as part of our mailing list our our team sent out product but of course kudos to them for finding the list of creators that relevant right And one of the influencers um created the content piece and she happened to be a huge fan of Ashley Toelle and sort of grew up with her and creates a Content piece and says you know I'm sure I I didn't know this was Ashley Chelle's friend but hey you are and she comments on the box and everything and she's like of course Ashley doesn't know me So thank you to the Pr team right? and and so we caught on to that. We're like, you know what? won't it be so nice that Ash we surprise her that actually Ashley does know her right? So so what we did was the team was on top of it a you know so we quickly saw that this was taking traction.

So we're like okay, let's let's now work this algorithm right. like let is, let it go viral. We quickly got in touch with Ashley Ashley didn't waste a minute, she quickly created a stitch with that Creator and suddenly she had just posted two videos and now came a third video. her crying hysterically that Ashley had created a video with her and was noticing the whole thing and Ashley posted on her channels too and she of course is a huge followership in the course of 48 hours I think we had generated four million views you know, and over half a million likes and and we're still counting because then we decided to boost the content, pay the influencer some usage rights, boost the content, and really give it further legs because guess what relevant content performs an algorithm.

So when you boost an ad like that is far more successful than a paid campaign salesy brand ad, you know. So so great. Great example of that. And I Hope that we have many more moments of it and continue to see that Revenue impact.

You know that's obviously the reactive right. That's obviously you. You've seated it. But that's the reactive.

Tell us your philosophy on the proactive when you look at your Brands and Eng your brand leads. How's the team thinking about using creators using the platforms Like what are some like for the next year ahead? What are some Um headlines that that that they're kind of working under? The offices that they're working under that they want to see creators with their brands right? Are you talking more from a proactive like outre proactive Yeah Ashley Story is amazing and it's funny I Went back in and looked at a bunch of um, the Tik toks and Ashley's commenting left and right right and we know that so much of the content happens in the comment section. But tell us more like proactively, how are you thinking about employing creators? Yeah, no. I think I think So there's multiple layers to it, right? So um, first layer is truly the founder.

Let several of Our Brands not all of our Brands like finer is a brand that we have. It's not founder like, but several of Our Brands would have start with Founder at the peak of it because they are almost the mouthpiece of of the content. Um, that's been created right now. If I were to really pull apart my two very large brands CH and Heritage for instance, right? Christen Very itg Girl brand the the aesthetic of it, it's it's beautiful.

blush, pink. It stands out. It's still the only female hairdresser Le brand that's out there in Mass categories which still surprises me. but hey, I'll take the differentiator there right? Um, but but there.

when we think about how we're building that pyramid, it's very much who are those it girl influencer consumers who are also lifestyle. They transcend into makeup. They transcend into hair because hair is such a big part of how you look and it's hairdresser. Equity So not only that, that, we need to build out the hairdresser.

Equity Not only that, because Christin has started off her career as a celebrity hair stylist. So do we need to have a presence in the red carpet? Do we need to partner with Glam Squad and be in those really affluent consumers households and giving those treatments and services right? And then on top of that, how do you build the army of micros and Nanos And then on top of that, hey, can we do something on Tik Tok Shop and make it be something relevant, right? Um, it's a very different go to market Market compared to Heritage The founder is Mindy Mcnight. She is a very well-loved mom on YouTube she started her career creating hairstyles for her girls, right? good old American Amazing values, right? So so the way we build her pyramid and amplify her voice is very different. The influencers that we target are very different.

You know we look at more Whit space American moments like Bama Rush is a really relevant moment for her, right? And it's such a specific moment, but it's very resonant to her target audience and her community. right? So so as you can already see, proactively just same team, right? Very similar Kpis but performing very differently and who they Outreach Yeah. So again, as you said before, the science is similar. You said something interesting when we've caught up before about how it is science.

But then you have to remember the human story of creating on the platforms. What do you mean by that? You know it's all of it, is just Art and Science right? Like I could tell you scientifically what leads to a viral moment, right? But can I recreate that Viral moment Because I know the science hard now, right? It boils down to Content It boils down to relevance and even as we find our founder partners and it's not something that I manage, we have a very strong team. Who does that. You know it's not just anybody with a huge following can be a founder of a brand.

There's a specific Art and Science that goes into of course the science is your followership, your engagement and we're watching you the content you're creating. Etc But the art of it is are you going to have the the skill set of a Founder Are you going to understand what it is to be an entrepreneur? Are you going to be able to work hard in the way that it would need for you to build this brand from scratch and or c on it right? like it's it's that piece I can't nail for you. That's just art and that's where the more you do it, the more you experiment, the better it gets. You know in the last conversation I Think a good point was we often talk about what we're doing in our own teams, what we're doing that we're seeing success with.

Where do you see and please? No specifics at all. but where do you see brands take a wrong turn with with creators especially. I Think when it's inauthentic I I I I Honestly mean that you know you're just partnering with the person just because you think they have the followership and and and that's it. And you know in the end you can pay your way through anything.

the world of marketing, right? Like anything can be bought with money. What can be bought with money is relevance and authenticity and the type of content you put out there. And I Think that's What a lot of the missteps have been um for Brands when you don't truly know your target audience and you make some wrong calls and who you pick you've said before in other interviews you've had. oh Andre you're peeping having too much fun I know such a wealth she's this could be a whole a whole uh introduction to marketing Introduction Creators: I think that's right I think we're gonna have our own episode with o what do you think would love that? Would love that Anything for you guys.

Oh my goodness. Well I hate to Hate to disrupt it but love to you both. Thanks for joining! Thanks Thanks Andre All right next up, let's bring up Avery Akinini Avery is our new Global CMO I am so excited to bring you up Avery and you're not new to Vayner that's for sure? no but uh got a big new uh shoes to fill with taking on your role Andreas you catapult into something amazing outstanding that I know everybody in this audience will be tuning in to see what happens next. Oh well, thank you so much Yeah Avery comes she stood up our Asia Pacific uh region which is the fastest growing and then went on to be president of Vayner 3.

So um yeah, so excited to see where you take us from here. But first, we have a very important conversation today with Alex Morrison who is the CMO of Paop and I'm gonna let you guys um, share a little bit more about what Paop is. This is, uh, this is the perfect show for you. Very excited to hear what you have to say.

All right. thank you so much Andre and Alex thank you for joining us um and for sharing your insights on how what you all are building at Paop and how you're helping both creators and Brands and being that sort of pair matching in the middle. Um, so can you tell us in the marketing for the now audience a little bit about yourself and a little bit about perp? Yeah, sure. Uh.

First of all, thanks, thanks for having me on and you know I think it's been tuning in so far. There's a lot of amazing themes we're hearing already I think in the conversation so you're going to hear a few more of those things drilled home. uh in our conversation I Have a feeling so Perot uh, we're the leading. uh Creator collaboration platform We help Brands unlock Creator Collaboration at Scale.

What you've been hearing from a lot of the marketers that have been on so far, um, is it's really important to get that match just perfect. It's really a brand alignment between a brand and a Creator and what we help Brands unlock is the brand Right Collaborations at Scale. So doing it again and again because the right partnership uh with a Creator might last. Uh, post, it might last a month, it might last a year, But continually discovering and activating the right creators uh, and learning from what works in the market is something that we really help Brands accomplish.

One thing that's really important to us too is that we're a Creator first company. So our mission first and foremost is to help creators earn a living doing what they love. Um, and that means that we built the largest community of creators coming up on 250,000 creators who are users. And so for a brand Market marketer or digital marketer What that means is you can tap into our community in a very TurnKey way.

And so we're reducing a lot of the friction of finding and activating the right creators. Um, and that's led to a lot of really exciting, uh growth for us. we're only a three-year-old company. Uh, and in that time we've we've grown tremendously and you know, lots more to come.

It's it's feels like a big year. Ahe, here in 2024 for sure. Yeah, it's the year of the Creator economy and it's been amazing to hear sort of Ashley's perspective and that you know creators get paid, campaign, and um, also what they're doing the beauty industry with O And you're kind of in the middle of all of these, right? You're across multiple different verticals and both on the Creator side and on the brand side and in three years you all have catapulted. I Recently joined your Advisory Board and I've been really enjoying learning a little bit more because you all have been on this rocket ship.

So what's the secret? like? How is Paop different than the many other sort of Creator matching tools that exist out there? I mean I Think it starts with the fact that we are Creator first. So I think a lot of marketers really want that disintermediated access to the right creators for their brand. So the fact that we have creators uh, swimming around at Perpa uh is a real Advantage I Think for us, um, and uh, really. for us, it's all about helping.

Brands win with creators and creators. win with Brands If either of those things isn't true, it's really not a sustainable. uh Arrangement right? No one's trying to take advantage of anyone here. Um, and so the secret I guess if there is one, is our Dynamic matching algorithm.

um, that really is pairing the right Brands and creators at scale as I mentioned. so really looking Beyond kind of surface level metrics like follower count, engagement rate, things that anyone can see with the naked eye right and really get a lot deeper into the characteristics that make a Creator a great fit for a brand and a brand? a great fit for that Creator Um and what that enables us to do? And I think one of the things that, um, they're probably two or three things that Brands say after they've partnered with us that are very different about the parp experience. The first is really getting that brand alignment. uh, right again and again and again because our matching algorithm is so finely tuned.

Um, the second is reducing friction. So like we all know, like creators, they're real, living breathing people. They they don't just stay put. it's not a pixel, you know.

sometimes I feel like there's a lot of AI creators these days. Alex that's you know that's increasingly true. We could talk about that for a whole session. but I mean the the the fact of the matter is.

um, you know, ultimately there's a lot of friction in the creative space and I think it's it's it's actually kept it from growing in the past where it's like, well, you know there are a lot of things I could do with my time and with my marketing budget. Uh, this just feels really like sometimes you can feel the gears grinding. Uh, when you're trying to get the right creators, activate them, understand what performance is going to look like in any meaningful way? Um, and so one of the big things that you know a lot of our brand Partners will say after let's say they finished a program with us is man that like that really actually felt very smooth. And part of the reason is because we're using our technology and our platform to put the two sides together.

Uh, and to make that interaction really really? Um, you know, easy for everybody and then the the third piece is knowing what's going to happen. I think a lot of times with creators in terms of business outcomes, right? And so I think a lot of times with creators, you're kind of taking a BET right? You kind of feel like, well, I've done all my desk research I've I love this person's feed. They feel like a really great alignment. but what's going to happen? You know, beyond sort of upper funnel metrics like Impressions uh, you know, engagements, things like that I Think a lot of marketers now are being gold on actual business performance and so being able to design programs that don't just speak kind of like the Pr language, but speak business.

Um, and be able to design programs that really move the business. Um, predictably like call it beforehand, right? Call your shot. It's really kind of important. Um, and so we help marketers really think through how to design these successful programs.

Um, that that move the needle for them. Whatever that looks like it could be purely brand or it could be, you know, something more lower, fun, accountable to business results. We must be at a Gary Vaynerchuck event because this is the thing that he talks about all day. every day.

Um, but Alex uh, you know it sounds like your matching algorithm has some like really interesting characteristics. I've got to ask, how is AI in the mix? Are you all you know, developing things that take advantage of sort of AI capabilities AI Um in the Creator economy is is probably one of the best topics we could be talking about. two buzzwords together. UNIF So yeah, no.

I mean definitely so we are. U but creators are too. So I mean you mentioned just before we dive into the parp side of this. Um, there are AI creators.

More and more of them there was, you know, pretty. U widely circulated article about a a Spanish modeling agency that created their own AI uh Creator uh to to basically show up for gigs because they were having trouble getting real people to show up for gigs. Uh so like this is a new thing. uh that we're add on one thing there because I think this is really interesting.

Some Brands who are listening to this might remember like Lil Michaela some Brands who are international might you know? remember? um EMA this virtual influencer in Japan who's been big for many years I Remember like five years ago we did a shoot with EMA in Japan um and it they kind of went away for a little while like Lil Michaela was like a big thing for a bit there and now it has come back in such a big way. at least from our perspective. Oh big time. Big Time I mean and if you even look at it, you know in terms of real human creators I mean adoption of AI as part of the creative process.

Proc is you know, off the charts I mean Some some recent surveys have said that as many as three Qus of creators are using uh AI to enhance their creation process whether it's coming up with content, ideas, uh, in the in the process itself. So Ai and creators, it's it's happening right? And here at Ppop, Um, the way we look at it is AI is uniquely great at helping us with kind of these large data sets, right? And so when we're thinking about pairing the right creators and brands at scale, uh, not only can we ingest a huge amount of data because we have both first-party data and third party data on creators and the brands that we work with, And so we're able to make much better recommendations as a result of machine learning in AI, but then the more at bats, right? the more campaigns we run, the smarter our system gets and the more for each individual brand, we're able to say look, these are the creators who worked for you last time. Now let's start thinking about adding those folks to a roster. We'll start making those recommendations dynamically.

Um, and a lot of that um is is made smarter and faster by AI. So um, so absolutely it's it's really, if you think about some of the core blockers that have kept the Creator economy from really reaching full um, full growth potential and I think a lot of these are going away. By the way, Um, you know AI is poised to really remove a lot of those. A lot of those pain points.

Amazing. Um Alex Last question for you and we'll try to cut this to one minute because I know we've had a long episode. Um, can you tell us like a campaign that you all are really proud of that you've recently done Or a piece of work that you think really speaks to how perp helps unlock? Um, you know creators and culture Totally. I Mean there there are so many that we could probably talk about.

but one that I I really like is something that we were fortunate to be involved with last year for Chipotle Um, and maybe anyone listening heard about this Keith ailla Keith Lee and Alexis Frost. It kind of happened organically on Tik Tok And this is kind of. the beautiful thing about creators is sort of by by listening to culture, seeing what's really happening and really is relevant to people people. um Chipotle jumped on what was basically a food hack on Tik Tok Um, prominent food creators were creating these sort of like quesadillas with fajita vegetables in them.

Uh, and giving it a perfect 10 score. All this kind of stuff and rather than sit idly by Chipotle actually created this as a menu item that was available on a limited basis and then we used Creators to promote this uh, limited edition menu item which was only available through the app. Uh, and what ended up happening was we created the sort of surround sound of Creator voices to promote this item. So it was kind of this full circle thing where it was born from creators promoted by creators.

Uh. And ultimately what ended up happening was it was the best digital sales weekend for Chipotle of all time. Had the most app downloads they've ever seen. So uh, for anyone who thinks that creators cannot drive hard business results, uh, think again, right? they definitely can.

it's all about wiring it up the right way and tying it into really things that are happening in culture and driving that relevance. So I think that was a nice example of of how you can really you know, hone in on something that's happening and put some gasoline on it with creators and drive some real impact. It's a theme that we're hearing across a lot of these. Alex Thank you so much for joining us for sharing your insights and for anyone anyone listening who's looking for a tool to help Pa Pop.

check it out, you got it! Thanks guys! appreciate than you both. Thanks for joining. All right let's bring up Chris Anthony Our Chief Revenue Officer of Gallery Media Group Chris How are youa? How are you? You're trying to stay warm, warm, and snugly like I am I mean I need that fur around your neck. It's so cool.

So true. Well, we're gonna create some fire here. We've got Andre Branch joining us uh, SVP and GM of Mac one of my favorite from Estee Lauder Um, and Andre is he he's hosted an he's held a number of different leadership roles at Great companies including L'Oreal Nature's Bounty and Diio and more. I'm very excited to reunite you guys uh and have an exciting conversation today.

Take it away Amazing! Andre Good to see you, great to see you again! Chris How's everything? It's good, you know, besides the frigid cold temperatures here. but excited about this topic and it feels like Mac is reflective of some of the good conversations we've had to date. So excited to dig in with you. Absolutely looking forward to it! Yeah, awesome, Um, but yeah.

I think you know you guys have such a story Legacy I Think that to me, culture and sort of what you guys had built the brand on from the Inception is so reflective around some so many great topics from inclusivity and authenticity. Um, but let's dig in some of the topics and sort of how we really understand what culture and is happening from a Creator standpoint is is really done on the platforms these days, right? Um, Starting off with Tik Tok Um is such a core platform I Think to everyone's strategies: how are you thinking about that platform I Know we're going to talk a little bit later about some specific collaborations as well, but talk a little about how Tik Tok fits into what you're thinking about. the brand from a culture and Creator lens? Yeah, of course. Well, I would say first of all the you know, just digital expansion really allows us to bring to life what makes Mac Mac to consumers in new and innovative ways.

and on social we're constantly building. Community Uh, We launched a dedicated Tik Tock and uh, Instagram Pages for the US and that's separate from our Global channels because we wanted to engage specifically with the consumers here. Uh, and we've invested a lot in influence of Partnerships building relationships with creators who are influencing culture. Uh, our art artists, many of whom are influencer in their own right, have all been trained and and always encouraged to have a social presence so you can learn from from them as well.

Uh, online, not just in the store. Um, looking at Tik Tok Specifically, it's where Jin Z and Millennials are which really makes it table saakes from Active Play. Uh, we log hours on the platform daily. Uh, and always in in close contact with our team at Tik Tok just to make sure that we are spotting the trends.

we're jumping in on the right ones at the right time. Um, as we as well as just upskilling our teams just to make sure they've got best practices in place. Um I'll tell you about an example on Tik Tok that we use to connect to our younger fans during National Lipstick Day. So anyone watching lip content on Tik Tok will always see Mac in a lip combo whether it's a lipstick or pencil or gloss.

Our lip products are really used by a lot of creators in their content. So we tapped into this trend and partnered with three creators that created their own uh Mac lip combos that we sold in all of our director channel uh, directed consumer Channel channels for for National Lipstick Day Um, our partners were Jod Woods we had Cindy Kimberly we had uh Alyssa Ashley all of whom dreamed up their own favorite lip combos using Mac and uh, the response was just overwhelming. It was amazing. We saw creators, artists, consumers uh, all running really to buy that Creator lip combo set and they created a lot of content for us, replicating it on Tik Tok and uh, during this time we saw our EMV really jump.

it increased. Um, we were number five and number three in EMV according to tribe in July and August respectively. Um, when the campaign was in the market. So really, really great campaign for us.

and then Beyond seeing the buzz the program actually drove a lot of new buyers to Mac It was really a success all around so you know we reached our our crators. um uh also responding in in real time. Um late last year uh Prea came on our radar I don't know if you know him but um he's got this this these these devotees called Pooky um and he started out making videos from his car in four weeks. he grew from like 30,000 to 4 million followers.

Really amazing. Uh and fans really embraced his his demeanor and loved his authenticity and he built a personal connection with them. Um, so we reached out to him, he thought it' be a great partner. uh put Mac on his radar um his growing fan base and he had so many ideas we just we landed on this very simple creative concept to tell the world that Pooky is actually a Mac girl.

Um so he filmed some things in store. uh he attempts to to go on the shopping spree for Pooky at Mac picking up things, asking her about you know, what she thinks and highlighting uh, all the things that Jiny and Tik Tock uh Jiny consumers love on for us and then Tik Tock faves and they had 1.6 million views on on on the video which is incredible so you know Tik Tok is is an amazing platform for us. It's possible to do a lot there. You just really need to have your ear to the ground and just know when to jump in.

That's what I would tell you. Well, that's such good examples of collaborations and spotting and sort of building the deeper relationships. Um, with some of those collaborators you mentioned I think even the point of talking about the artists and sort of like them being an influencer in their own right. um and has been such core to the brand.

So so true. And the whole Community aspect is such an interesting thing to think about when you think about a lot of this. Um, overall like how we move through this world of fast moving culture and social and Tik Tok and everything's changing constantly for these younger Generations that are driving so much of culture. what does agility mean to you and sort of how do you move quickly And that could be whether that's externally to make this stuff happen or whether it's internally with your team.

How do you think about just moving quickly in order to bring all this to life? which is definitely not a a easy task to accomplish. Yeah, yeah, not easy at all. I mean um, you know Mac is a true Culture brand and to really have that title, you have to move quickly. Uh, we really pride ourselves for not only capturing the moment uh or the momentum on Rising Trends but also just uh being Trend Setters ourselves.

So you know one day we're wearing latte makeup and then the next day it's their Sugar Plum Fairy make uh, really, uh, get after these things because to be successful today, we recognize that you really need to be able to move with speed. Uh, and that's where Ma Tren comes into place for us. So our brand is really the ultimate color Authority with really an array of products Tove Trends and trends no longer move through this biannual fashion calendar, right? It used to be Fashion Week driven now Trends are really moving a mile a minute thanks to social media and our agile approach really is to to meet consumers at at their Pace that starts with um our Global Trend team. You know they Source Trends through a combination of math and Magic leaning on social and and search tools as well as inputs from our extensive relationships in in fashion and in film music editorial.

We've got artists all over the world, so we're constantly getting data and input. uh that we understand we understand when something's really bubbling up and uh, with their help for example, we predicted um, the soft goth Trend that really took off last year. soft Goth Glamour was on the spring summer 23 runways and at the 2022 Met Gala And shortly after that uh, the Netflix show Wednesday launched and that was a breakout hit. Um, and we supported the makeup lead on the show who really spoke about creating this soft golf look for the Wednesday character using Um Mac lip pencil and night moth fans jumped in recreating the looks which really spiked.

Sales Online searches and inore request of the product and so we quickly mobilize our artist Community to demonstrate how to achieve that. Trend um across social in store so we have a system set up that's very very reactive. uh and being Mac and being the number one presed Beauty brand we're able to really leverage our our Synergy and our our scale to take advantage of those moments. I Love that the math and the magic such a great way to look at it.

and I think ways that you guys have reacted and been able to amplify with some of those examples is is super smart. Talk a little bit about you know when I think of Mac and the Beginning you guys always represented diversity and inclusivity. I think before the world woke up and realized that that should just be the norm in what was happening. um with marketers and how do you balance really like authenticity and and your constant commitment to diversity with also you know chasing Rel within the ever world of culture today, how do you balance sort of those two truisms.

knowing that that's been such a core to the Inception of Mac yeah yeah for sure. um I would say like every aspect of our brand our our journey uh really starts with with a consumer Mac has always had a very loyal consumer base and the Brand's Legacy of inclusivity was key to this. Uh. and in fact, many diverse consumers can trace their first Beauty experiences back to Mac.

So as our consumers evolve and new generations are really introduced uh, such as Jinz or Millennial Millennials our brand really? um, has to stay constantly tapped in to what those consumers want and what they need. and we really love partnering with culturally relevant voices who help us drive those conversations. And Trends larger than Beauty Uh, and with the rise of Tik Tok you know anyone can really be a Creator uh because anyone can find viral success. but what we look for is something far more important when creating our our brand.

building relationships and what's important to Mac as you mentioned or or three things one is alignment with the brand values, right? So we really honor diversity, individuality and self-expression above all else. Uh, and we believe everyone should should be free to use makeup to tap into their authentic identities. We're committed to creating a welcoming community on social and ensuring diverse representation. Um, and so we do that.

We do that with the folks that we work with. We have uh, our Matt crew uh for example which is an ensemble cast of always on social creators who fully embody those values while also reflecting what the consumers uh are trying to achieve or want in a particular La Tour initiative. Uh, so that works for us I Think the other thing that's important uh is create creativity and quality of content. You know the content quality always needs to be there.

it's a reflection of the brand. We always think if I were a consumer watching this, what would I think uh would it resonate with me and our influencer team watches hours of content a day to? really? Scout Great creators? Uh, and then you need to trust the creators to be the experts right in? They're creative. Um, giving up total creative control may seem a bit uneasy for some, but we know that our creators know the brand and that comes with just a lot of research. Uh, but by investing in creators who really understand the Mac brand, the creative process has been for us very seamless and the end results have been very very strong.

I Think the last thing I would say is you know, uh, people really need to be a lover and a user of Mac You know authenticity is an influencer buzzword because audiences have really become much more Discerning with the marketing being so saturated at and they value content that they feel is genuine that's transparent, that's uh, really relevant to them. uh and consumers like Jin Z really want content that feels more organic which means that adds uh a more integrated into the content that speaks to them as opposed to just a hard marketing cell. Um, so we really sharpen our focus on aligning with creators who use Mac or or some kind of way have a natural connection to to the brand. Um, and this really also extends to the creators who who will continue to support the brand organically over time even after the pay you know part ship ends.

So um, this for us is a relationship that feels much more holistic. I Love that and I think that's such a great takeaway in the sense that it's if you pick and Source the right people for the brand. The trust is easy to have because those people are innately already trusting you guys. So so great! Congrats on all the amazing work um and excited to all the future work that Mac and your team puts out.

awesome in the chat there. Thank you so much Andre Thank you thanks Andre Che Stay warm. All right we're down to our last conversation. Last but not least, we can bring Avery back up and we're gonna bring Jeff from Dell who is live from Seattle where apparently the power has completely gone out but that's not stopping Jeff Something to be said about him.

uh I Hope you're doing okay Jeff Is everything okay out there? I am yeah Thanks for having me today. Good to see you both! Oh my goodness Yeah well we're We're thrilled to have you! Jeff is the Senior Director of Digital Marketing at Dell And what I love is He's not only immersed in B2B marketing And all things Tech and media, but he's also he is a part of Pop Culture So he's a Creator and a DJ and an artist himself. Uh, so I think there's going to be a lot of Juicy stuff coming out of this conversation? I will leave it to the two of you. Amazing! Thanks Andre and Jeff really appreciate you joining.

Come H High water or no power here you are! so we're so pumped to have you join Marketing for the now today. Yeah, thanks for for having me! Avery Awesome! So Jee can you tell us a little bit about yourself? as Andre said, you're Creator you're a marketer. Um, tell us a little bit about you and what you do at Dell Yeah. I've been at Dell now about the last year and a half.

Uh, Senior Director of Digital Marketing. You know leading a team in terms of you know how to grow the brand, how to grow sort of different solution areas, product areas um also company. You know if you think about it, Dell's 40 years old this year was founded in 1984. Uh, we still have a CEO founder Michael Dell Still, you know, involved in the day-to-day so that's sort of a rarity out there.

So I think that's been quite interesting. Um, you know, prior to Dell spent almost a decade at Microsoft uh and then spent a long time in in sort of the New York agency World Ogal V 360i a lot of Boutique shops um and uh yeah, that's actually how I sort of discovered Gary ve way back in the day is working sort of in the early 2000s and sort of the boutique World cool and in your day-to-day life now? Um, in a world where we're sort of constantly adapting to new trends and platforms