You know to your point: the visas, the mastercards they have so much power, so much anointing power, so much gateway power, but all they can do is slow it down the cat's out of the bag. You've got your perspective. I just want to be happy. Don't you want to be happy, let's start with nfts those non-fungible tokens, our audience.

Our readers and listeners are so interested in those you've been very busy, creating and issuing your own nfts and selling them. Most recently, you sold your collection of of doodles and sketches for over a million dollars at auction at christie's. You started an nft platform with julian schnabel called art official. What is it gary about nfts that has you so enthusiastic? What are they telling us about? The future about collectibles about authenticity, i think people are underestimating what digital ownership means no different than i think people underestimated what having a social media account meant.

You know, i don't think you know this we're both of the age where a human having a social media account was foreign. That was not something people did, and today you know most people do, even if they have it anonymously to keep tabs on people or use twitter to keep up with the news or occasionally check facebook. For you know birthdays, you know, a shocking amount of society is active on social and even bigger percentages consuming it, and i don't you know, as somebody who was there in 2005, 67 people didn't see it that way. They saw it as for kids, they saw it as who cares if you're having a piece of pizza or walking the dog, and i think the exact same thing is happening right now in nft land.

I think people are misunderstanding. Why everyone's going to want to own something digitally? You know you have all these cool things behind you as we're filming this there's a reason. You want those things expressing yourself decorating your home memory to something there's a million different investment scenarios, and i think that people don't understand that nfts represent many things um, but from an investment standpoint, people want to have digital assets and they're going to trade. Those digital assets.

I also think it goes beyond that. I think the reason somebody owns a rolex versus a regular watch, a pair of nikes besides a regular joggers, a a mercedes-benz instead of a ford, is because of status and expressionism and and then there's the overarching aspect that it is a public, transparent, ledger confirmed by With no cost association in comparison to leases and mortgages and all the other things and so um to me, this is a foregone conclusion to me. It's similar to 95 internet life, though um you know, i think much like we saw on the internet. There was a lot of public stocks that made no sense that were worth a lot of money, pets.com becoming the poster child, and i think the same thing is happening in nft project land.

I think the nft thing is going to happen and i want v friends to be amazon or at least ebay right uh, and they were there as dollar stocks back when everything crashed and i think the same thing's happening in ft land. The macro concept is here in perpetuity on the micro. I do believe we're in a gold rush moment right now and there are a lot of people buying nfts that will not be as valuable as they pay for them and that's a treacherous thing to navigate through the macros right and there's an amazon and ebay at It there, oh by the way eight out of ten of them, are pets.com how you gon na figure that out there's a lot of ways to play it if you're high risk high reward you're buying the individual stuff, if you're a little bit different you're. Looking at the whole landscape and deciding where you want to be a participant selling the shovels and the picks uh buying individual projects, you know, for example, i've spent a lot of money on crypto punks and i feel like it's my most safe investment.

I own really genuinely i'm that convinced that that project, the og project, the one that kind of established the 10 000 images framework, the one that is owned by many important people and collectors is uh, is incredibly sound and i think the bottom floor of that is Four hundred thousand dollars a piece right now, and so you know this is how i think about things. What does it conceptually mean? Metaphysically mean in a world where everything's digital things can be faked. How important is the authenticity that signature? This is a gary vee original uh to the value of things looking forward out a decade, or so i mean it's everything right i mean that's. That was the vulnerability of uh of the world we live in today there was fakes, there's no fakes in nft land, um, it's incredibly powerful and providences understood and who owned it and the transparency matters you know christies and sotheby's are respected and accepted, but it's human-based.

They can only be so right. It's inconceivable to me that there haven't been fake things sold through the greatest auction houses in the world, with what you're doing with nf keys each one of these tokens you recently sold with the v friends. Collection includes a smart contract with the metadata that that you can interact with the buyer with right these they can get exclusive access. I'm reading to an annual business event called vcon for three years.

This is more than just buy something that i created because i'm garyvee. Here's my digital signature, it's a one, one-of-one you're, creating community with them is that where this is headed to reality is, is that i'm? I feel this is more walt disney than it is andy warhol, i'm trying to build an intellectual property tv film action figure. This than the other thing - and you know these tokens - are the original cells right there and and i can create value of creation, as i keep adding value to the ticket holders. The token holders the nft holder.

So it's an economy that you're building as a creator of nfc project. I think we can all agree that bitcoin is probably dramatically more far along than what many would have predicted it to be eight nine years ago, and that itself has to right. When you have visa mastercard allowing you to transact when you have the biggest money managers allowing you to invest in crypto or pathways to that, we're here right, i believe so and i believe we're here on the consumer lens. You know to your point: the visas, the mastercards, the biggest trading firms.

They have so much power, so much anointing power, so much gateway power, but all they can do is slow. It down right people want it the count, the cat's out of the bag. What's the natural extension of influence marketing, as you see it? Well, i you know, i think what a lot of influencers are going to do now is, and we've seen this progression. It went from you know, just building up a following and monetizing offline.

A book deal speaking, i live that back to my original influencer world. Then you started getting into the monetization of the ads right. The youtube ad revenue started becoming quite meaningful. Then you started getting into brand deals.

Brands started to compensate influencers and there are plenty of people who make seven figures a year, being a human being on social and having brands, pay them money to endorse them. No different than mickey mantle or john wayne just an influencer fall. Then you started seeing you know them. Influencers are starting to build businesses like i did with empathy wines.

You know eight nine figure exits for influencers who built a company on the back of their audience, and now i think, you'll see in nft land people build. You know ecosystems, you know financial vehicles, uh economies around them and i think that's where we're going. Let's talk about investing, which is our domain. You've been a pretty savvy investor and you've been an early investor in some very successful public companies.

Given what we've seen gary in the past 18 months, millions of new traders and investors joining the market through the robin hoods, the etoros, the weebles or even a classic online broker? How is that game changing now that we have this very uh engaged retail base? It changes a lot. You know. You've got a lot more casual investors, many of whom view it as a vehicle for community. Many of them who view it as social gaming is what i would use.

You know, like people buying, to gain the dynamics, we're seeing investing as an identity. We've seen that with entrepreneurship as a decade. Now yeah is somebody we all know, that's right, so i think i think that a couple things on that one there's also a lot of naivete and ideology and lack of education which can lead to huge vulnerability. So you know a lot of the kids they like me and i keep pushing them like be thoughtful.

You know like get educated um, but i think you know it. It speaks well. I actually think it's probably one of the biggest reasons i'm bullish on nfts. I i still believe that the way nfts are going to play out is somebody's going to be more excited to show you they're, holding an x copy or a crypto punk than holding 17 shares of tesla.

Let's talk about how you identify investments that you want to make public or private public companies, private companies, businesses you get into! What's your criteria, what are your basics that you put everything through when you look at that prism? Do i believe in the hypothesis that consumers will like this and do i believe, the human being that's driving? It is capable of driving it or adjusting to reality. This is as simple as it gets, and i have a knack for understanding consumers, which already puts me in a very good spot on hypothesis. I also have a very strong understanding of timing. One thing that i've understood now in hindsight when i look at my success, is: oh i'm good at timing like when all my friends are like investing in vr.

I understand that vr is gon na happen, but i i was stronger than them four years ago, saying vr is further away than you think. Let's talk about the the last year year and a half, what influenced you the most in the past year? What did you change about the way you operate as a as an executive or as a father as a person uh given the last year that we've been through or so before, kovid i started being self-aware that lack of candor as an executive and a leader gary Vee the person everybody knows on the other side, strength was candor people loved that i quote unquote shot at straight on stage in meetings, but me on one on one in every relationship on and off the field of business. I struggled with deploying critical feedback or negative feedback. I tried to get around it with optimism.

Oftentimes met with delusion and over the last three years, i've really chipped away at it and my new book that's coming out in november, i called it 12 and a half. It was about these 13 emotional ingredients that i think are essential for business success as a leader or as an employee, and i call it 12 and a half because kind. Candor is one of them, but i go very vulnerable and say i'm only at a half on this one and that's the biggest thing i've changed. I think i'm through going through a put a positive journey around candor.

Well, you not only preach empathy in your business and you have the wine, but i know for a fact that you practice it as a leader as a father and as a friend when did you come to that realization and how has it made you better early? I i knew as a child that i was nicer than most people that i was more compassionate. I didn't have the words of empathy. I knew i was more sensitive, i legitimately recall, crying or being on the verge of tears. When kids would pick on kids who had disabilities or were poor.

You know i grew up in a pr. My first several years of america, i grew up in lower middle class environments. You know you find yourself in those environments, there's some kids that are even less fortunate than you wearing the same clothes to school. I was always very sensitive.

I cried a lot. I had a lot of emotions and feelings, but they were my superpower and i knew, as i got older and older and older, it became very clear to me how to harness it and i'm so proud of my compassion and empathy and sympathy and feelings towards others. It you know, i love that i get such a sense of happiness by delivering for others, it's a it's a beautiful lucky. I want to use that word.

It's just my dna. It is a beautiful, but it was count. You know, and then even my mother, who accentuated it, there's luck in having that mother right, like i'm incredibly grateful for the circumstances that led me to be very passionate about other people's feelings, seeing the arbitrage and seeing around corners, something you have done ever since i Met you years and years ago, and it's been a real pleasure to know you and and watch what you've been able to build, but also the person that you've become gary vaynerchuk thanks. So much for joining the express so good to have you here, thanks caleb.